To think we need to speak up

[BigBillyButterBollocks]

Loud. Fast.

I don't want to turn it into a Hamas is responsible/Israel is responsible. I don't want to turn it into a debate.

It takes 3 to 5 days to die from dehydration. Probably less for babies. Being stuck with 2 million people also desperate for water is gonna turn ugly. Then there are the bombings, no food, the lack of medical supplies.

When a journalist asked if the electricity cuts would impact babies in incubators, he was shamed for supporting Hamas beheading babies.

When a journalist asked if the siege was a war crime, the impact on civilians and why did all politicians present the attack as Islamist attack against Jews without any context about the Palestinian cause, he was shamed for supporting Hamas and the atrocities that happened.

When a journalist asked if the siege was legal, that labour lady whose name escapes me kept on repeating a rehearsed message of "Israel has the right to defend himself".

They all seem to have gotten a memo that you deflect any question with shaming and bringing up the atrocities against Israeli children.

Atrocities happened in Israel. It sickens me and saddens me deeply. There is no excuse for it. But it can't be used to avoid talking about what is happening in Gaza. I feel we are being gaslighted into not asking questions.

I want to believe they are secretely working on a deal but I don't think they are. And time is not on Gaza's civilians side.

AIBU to think we should be making a lot of noise for our politicians to stop defending the Gaza siege and start speaking up about this? NOW. Not in 3/5/10 days?

It is haunting me at the moment. I can't focus at work, I can't sleep. What the fuck are we letting happen?

Gaza strip is only 25 miles long and densely populated. They are being carpet bombed and deprived of basic necessities.
This is not Isreal defending itself. This is an excuse for ethnic cleaning.
With the world's super powers and super intelligence agencies on their side, Israel finds it easier to bomb the civilians and children rather than find the preparators of it.
Let it be clear we are witnessing a genocide and this will go down is history as world watches. !!!

I hope you are not saying that the Babylonian diaspora is linked to Hamas when the Muslim religion would not even exist for another thousand years?

I’m afraid you’re misinformed- their founding documents state exactly that.

They eventually agreed to a two state solution but have rejected every mechanism to do that?

Do you want these Jihadists to be able to wander into Israel and murder rape and torture without consequences. What do you suggest the consequences should be? A fine? A rap on the knuckles? What would you want your government to do if terrorist s invaded your country killed over a thousand people including beheading babies??

Hamas and their supporters need chasing down. The Palestinians should be aiding Israel to get rid of the Jihadists if they also truly stand against them they are a common enemy.

We must never allow antisemitism to gain even a toe hold.

Israel as entitled to act in self defence.

Sorry but Israel is not allowed to murder another nation's innocent babies. That is the wrong thing to do. There is nothing self defenceish about bombing hospitals. Other nations have rights too.

Bollocks. A densely populated city is not a shield, it just happens to be there. No, Israel is not special enough to get to defend itself by ethnic cleansing - no nation is. What has happened in Israel is a tragedy and an outrage but it doesn't mean that Israel gets to commit atrocities elsewhere.

Given Hamas have a habit of hiding arms in such places….

How do you want Israel to respond to the atrocities carried out by the jihadist Hamas?

So how should Israel respond to the Jihadist Hamas?

It started the long history of continued persecution of the Jews necessitating their own land.

Maybe you should read the founding documents of Jihadist Hamas
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

There is no reason to think sick children won’t be evacuated. But this is a war. Israelis have acted with greater care than any other country in any other conflict by warning civilians of bombing. There are many wars in the world- I don’t like to see people suffering but I didn’t hear you say anything about the sanctions against Russia or Iran or anyone else.

war is awful. But no more awful because Jews are fighting on one side.

They are not being “carpet bombed” at all. Israel has targeted strikes at Hamas infrastructure giving warnings to civilians beforehand - unfortunately Hamas has a habit of using Palestinians and other people as human shields.

It’s not a genocide at all. It’s a war. It’s awful but so are all wars

I’m afraid your information is outdated and stuck in 1988. Their founding charter stated they wanted to reclaim all of Palestine, but that is not their current aim.

Hamas have agreed to the Oslo accord of 1993 (PLO was in charge then) published numerous official documents including an updated charter which states their aim is the two state solution. They have not rejected every mechanism for it, as well as the Oslo accords they have repeatedly signed up to the two state solution but are always rebuffed by Israel.

If say we had northern resurgent Viking terrorists from Danelaw that attacked and took 150 hostages from the Midlands to hide in Manchester, I would not want the MoD to surround Manchester, bombard it with 6,000 bombs, cut off all food, medicine, water and power. Not let people leave or humanitarian aid in. I certainly would not mass 360,000 troops and battalions of tanks to roll in after telling the surviving Mancunians go to Trafford or die.

yeah, a Hamas bomb making factory just “happens to be” in a densely populated area. Hamas fighters just “happen to be” in schools and hospitals.

naive at all?

Hamas have not “signed up” to the Oslo accords. They have repeatedly said that they wish to eradicate all Jewish people and have just committed a vile terrorist attack. The idea that Hamas are trying for peace but have been “rebuffed by Israel” is actually totally absurd.

6,000 bombs over 4,000lbs on an area of 141 sq miles is carpet bombing.
Carpet bombing is understood to refer to violation of the Geneva convention on heavy bombardment that indiscriminately targets civilians. The UN has stated that Israel’s bombardment is such a war crime.

”Dozens of the United Nations' rights experts on Thursday condemned Hamas's "horrific crimes" and said Israel's bombardment of the Gaza Strip "amounts to collective punishment".
"There is no justification for violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians, whether by Hamas or Israeli forces," said the experts in a joint statement.
"This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime."
They denounced what they called the targeted and deadly violence directed at civilians in Israel.”

Also see
https://www.reuters.com/world/un-experts-say-israels-strikes-gaza-amount-collective-punishment-2023-10-12/

6000 bombs had caused 1500 casualties (1500 too many), 1 casualty for every 4 bombs?

It isn’t. They agreed in 1995 to Oslo by stopping military actions and recognising the PA but after the son of a leader was assassinated by Shin Bet, they stopped believing in it. Please read the history of Hamas.

Hamas have tried for peace while reiterating the two state solution along 1967 borders numerous times since 2009.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Are you suggesting Hamas are misrepresented?

That is the current estimated death toll but U.N. officials on the ground say that an uncounted number of casualties are under the rubble of their high rise apartments/homes and cannot be recovered.

In several posts there are factual errors regarding Hamas.

As they have told citizens to stay put hopefully they bomb shelters available tp them. Is it so densely populated they have no option but to be amongst/underneath civilian areas? Or is that a lie too?

I also don’t understand why, considering the conflict between them, Palestine is beholden to Israel for water and electricity. I have tried looking it up and can’t find an answer, you seem quite knowledgeable, do you know why Palestine haven’t been able to source energy supplies from say, Egypt?

@Maatandosiris

"Going forward we need to stop being so complacent"

100%. I will never again be complacent to Israel crimesagainst Palestinians or occupation of Palestinian territories!

The warning is a joke, it’s 57 seconds and you have to be on the internet refreshing constantly to see it. How is that possible when under a siege where you have no power and therefore no reliable internet access…does your wifi work with no power? Do you have 5G when the cell mast has been bombed? No. And even if you did see this warning, how far and fast can you run? Entire neighbourhoods were levelled at once, can you run out of a 6th floor flat and a block away in under a minute? Good, can a 2yr old? Can a pregnant woman? Can an 82yr old? Can a disabled person?

Israel have blockaded the Gaza Strip for 16yrs by sea, air and land they control everything that goes in and out and coordinate with Egypt including electricity. During the current bombardment, Egypt wanted to send in humanitarian aid, disagreeing with Israel, but Israel’s response was to bomb the border crossing three times in 24hrs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip