To think we need to speak up

[BigBillyButterBollocks]

Loud. Fast.

I don't want to turn it into a Hamas is responsible/Israel is responsible. I don't want to turn it into a debate.

It takes 3 to 5 days to die from dehydration. Probably less for babies. Being stuck with 2 million people also desperate for water is gonna turn ugly. Then there are the bombings, no food, the lack of medical supplies.

When a journalist asked if the electricity cuts would impact babies in incubators, he was shamed for supporting Hamas beheading babies.

When a journalist asked if the siege was a war crime, the impact on civilians and why did all politicians present the attack as Islamist attack against Jews without any context about the Palestinian cause, he was shamed for supporting Hamas and the atrocities that happened.

When a journalist asked if the siege was legal, that labour lady whose name escapes me kept on repeating a rehearsed message of "Israel has the right to defend himself".

They all seem to have gotten a memo that you deflect any question with shaming and bringing up the atrocities against Israeli children.

Atrocities happened in Israel. It sickens me and saddens me deeply. There is no excuse for it. But it can't be used to avoid talking about what is happening in Gaza. I feel we are being gaslighted into not asking questions.

I want to believe they are secretely working on a deal but I don't think they are. And time is not on Gaza's civilians side.

AIBU to think we should be making a lot of noise for our politicians to stop defending the Gaza siege and start speaking up about this? NOW. Not in 3/5/10 days?

It is haunting me at the moment. I can't focus at work, I can't sleep. What the fuck are we letting happen?

Whilst I understand your sentiments. And I feel so bad for the children and babies who have absolutely no say in the matter, I think what you're suggesting is dangerous to millions of people around the world.

You want the UK government to stop Israel from protecting itself? What message would that give the world? We'd see a MASSIVE rise in anti-semitism, much more so than already. There's a very real risk to Jews right now and being only 80 years post holocaust, I think what you're saying shows your objectiveness which isn't always a good thing. You aren't considering the bigger picture here.

What do you suggest Israel does to protect its innocent citizens? They're still under threat. That fact seems to be forgotten by many people. This isn't just a case of retribution. They are preventing further attack which surely anyone would do and should do for it's own citizens.

There's no answer here. Hamas truly fucked up. And as they won't have peace, there isn't a right answer.

It has been explained to you very clearly by @RedCrossSupporter

"I’m afraid your information is outdated and stuck in 1988. Their founding charter stated they wanted to reclaim all of Palestine, but that is not their current aim.

Hamas have agreed to the Oslo accord of 1993 (PLO was in charge then) published numerous official documents including an updated charter which states their aim is the two state solution. They have not rejected every mechanism for it, as well as the Oslo accords they have repeatedly signed up to the two state solution but are always rebuffed by Israel.

If say we had northern resurgent Viking terrorists from Danelaw that attacked and took 150 hostages from the Midlands to hide in Manchester, I would not want the MoD to surround Manchester, bombard it with 6,000 bombs, cut off all food, medicine, water and power. Not let people leave or humanitarian aid in. I certainly would not mass 360,000 troops and battalions of tanks to roll in after telling the surviving Mancunians go to Trafford or die"

(That where you repeat for the 172th time "Hamas have not “signed up” to the Oslo accords" ).

To which @RedCrossSupporter answered

"They agreed in 1995 to Oslo by stopping military actions and recognising the PA but after the son of a leader was assassinated by Shin Bet, they stopped believing in it. Please read the history of Hamas.

Hamas have tried for peace while reiterating the two state solution along 1967 borders numerous times since 2009."

That's when you ignore the answer and pretend you haven't seen until you try thay shit again with someone else until you find peopel eating youbpropaganda without questioning it.

There is no excuse for breaking International humanitarian laws. There is no excuse for collective punishment. Religion is not an excuse. These international laws are there for a reason and when countries breach them they should be condemned and sanctioned.

Well that has made it very clear to all on here that your purported, I’m not here to talk about who’s right and who’s wrong, I’m just here because I can’t sleep worrying about the babies is at the best misleading.

The Oslo Accords of 1992 have been cited as Treason to Islam at various points by Hamas. Their updated charter of 2017 states that a two state solution is a stepping stone to the “liberation of Palestine” that the war is with their “Zionist enemy” (Israel).

I quote;

“The Zionist project14. The Zionist project is a racist, aggressive, colonial and expansionist project based on seizing the properties of others; it is hostile to the Palestinian people and to their aspiration for freedom, liberation, return and self-determination. The Israeli entity is the plaything of the Zionist project and its base of aggression.
15. The Zionist project does not target the Palestinian people alone; it is the enemy of the Arab and Islamic Ummah posing a grave threat to its security and interests. It is also hostile to the Ummah’s aspirations for unity, renaissance and liberation and has been the major source of its troubles. The Zionist project also poses a danger to international security and peace and to mankind and its interests and stability.”

This of course is after a long false rhetoric that basically says the Holy Land belongs to Islam and only Islam.

I would strongly argue that the Jihadist mo set out in their founding charter still underpins this revised fluffier, for the masses version.

im not sure what issue you think I’m failing to respond to. What you are repeatedly failing to respond to is how Israel should react to the atrocities carried out by the Jihadist terrorists on their soil.

Can't leave my kids alone and will certainly not take them with me but desperately searching if something is happening tomorrow. Heard of anything?

@CaughtUpInYourWishingWell

Repeat after me.

"Depriving civilians of water and food is not self defense"

"Depriving civilians of water and food is not self defense"

"Depriving civilians of water and food is not self defense"

I think Hamas very clearly is a group for freedom of Palestine who has chosen to use violence so are called terrorist group by some nations.

so you are saying they are not an Islamist group?

Islamist
/ˈɪzləmɪst/

noun

1. an advocate or supporter of Islamic fundamentalism; a person who advocatesincreasing the influence of Islamic law in politics and society.
2. "radical Islamists"

adjective

1. relating to, advocating, or supporting Islamic fundamentalism.
2. "hardline Islamist groups"

just freedom fighters?

Most likely not, now Ms Braverman has made it almost illegal to show support for Palestine in public.
I still can't believe the rallies I attended in support of Palestinian freedom years ago could now see me wrongly labelled as a supporter of Hamas.

In total war there are no rules. Britain bombed Dresden knowing full well hundreds of thousands of innocent people would burn to death.

Why should Israel be held to standards no one else is?

There's a march in London at 12 tomorrow. Will be very heavily policed, I'd imagine.

Is this actually the case? I’m going to have to do some reading on this, but I harbour some serious doubts that Israel is as beneficial an ally to the West as is suggested. Maybe it was in the Cold War. I don’t know and I admit I’m not that knowledgeable.

It just seems like it receives a great deal of aid from the US but does not cooperate when challenged on Palestine. As far as I know while it’s a useful trading partner it doesn’t have any resources for the West to exploit. In the meantime the US weakens the UN by using vetoes on its behalf, it’s relationship with the West causes tensions between the West and the rest of the Middle East and anti Western sentiment which could lead to attacks here. I don’t see how it’s a more important partner than Saudi for example. Is it just that having Western Allies means it won’t get attacked by other ME states and therefore the region is more stable?

To be clear, this is more of a question, not a suggestion that Israel shouldn’t be an ally (though, I don’t think the international community should be supporting its current actions in Gaza and apartheid).

Join the protest outside Israel embassy. Its about time we call their terrorists actions out. Its unbelievable how the governments of Europeans/US are complicit in this genocide...just a while ago these same people were shedding tears for Ukraine...unbelievable western hypocrisy at display here.

I might. I am so choked at what I have been seeing these last few days. What Israel did and how far our politicians went to twist the truth and allow Israel to do it. What tehy condone? Nah, I'm not living with the consequences of that.

I hope those of you joining the rallies to free Palestine have also joined the manifestations where we've been lighting candles in honour of the victims and praying for peace? These manifestations can be found at your local Jewish community. I'm sure there will be plenty more in the coming weeks. We lit candles tonight and prayed for peace while the Free Palestine rallies were calling for our death.

I personally would not go and protest outside the Israeli embassy, they have enough on their plate right now and anyway, why would they care whether a bunch of British women disagree with their action? Surely if you feel strongly about it go and protest outside number 10. It's our own government you want to lean on to speak up against the seige, not the government of the State of Israel. You want to make your opinion clear.

Where is this? I can't say I've ever been to a free Palestine rally that called for the death of anyone, that is a new turn if som There are no such events near me (rallies or gatherings for peace). Health and childcare stop me attending these days, though.

Hopefully any such rallies calling for the death of anyone are reported - it's completely disingenuous and not the point of such a rally. It is upsetting to think that's happening.

Or protest outside the palestinian Misson to urge them to ditch hammas?

What nonsense. I was at a vigil for Palwstine here in Ireland on Thursday and no one was calling for your death. I will be going to another tomorrow and still won't be calling for your death. It isn't about you. It is about the people of Palestine.

"Ground troops enter enclave to fight despite UN warning deadline to flee may spark ‘bone-chilling’ crisis"

Well... We're about to find out the cost of Israel defending themselves after giving a few hours to evacuate over 1 million people in a bombed area.

😪

They stopped defending themselves a while ago, this is a massacre. 😔
Unfortunately, Netanyahu has never come across as particularly, well, sane...

I know what you mean OP, I wish I could do something too. I've written to my MP....not exactly action on a grand scale, but if thousands of people do it then the government may at least start to realise that it isn't representing the nation's views. I suspect both the media and political parties are terrified of being accused of antisemitism and that's why they're behaving as they are.

Are you telling me there haven't been any rallies for the Palestinians where they've been calling for the death of Jews?

Why is it only about the Palestinians and not also about the 1300 dead and 150 kidnapped Israelis, who were victims of terror? Why isn't it about both?

BREAKING: 70 killed after convoys of evacuees in Gaza hit by Israeli strikes

Yep. Glorious and honest Israel who gives time for people to leave.

Raise your hand if you knew that would happen and were just counting the hours until it happened?

And there have been rallies where Jewish people /Israelis called for the genocide of Gazans.

Because the rights of Palestinians has nothing to do with what happened Saturday. It has been decades of oppression.

And Gaza doesn't have an army rampaging through Israel with the clear goal to destroy it and kill as m any people as possible.

The death of 1300 Israelis is horrendous and inexcusable. Everybody is talking about it.

It doesn't excuse the death of tens of thousand of thousands of civilians in Gaza at the end end of the government who has oppressed and dehumanised Palestinians for decades. And no one is talking about it. Politicians refuse to even acknowledge it... Or any war crime (how long will they be able to avoid it though?)

That is why free Palestine is about Palestinians only.