To think we need to speak up

[BigBillyButterBollocks]

Loud. Fast.

I don't want to turn it into a Hamas is responsible/Israel is responsible. I don't want to turn it into a debate.

It takes 3 to 5 days to die from dehydration. Probably less for babies. Being stuck with 2 million people also desperate for water is gonna turn ugly. Then there are the bombings, no food, the lack of medical supplies.

When a journalist asked if the electricity cuts would impact babies in incubators, he was shamed for supporting Hamas beheading babies.

When a journalist asked if the siege was a war crime, the impact on civilians and why did all politicians present the attack as Islamist attack against Jews without any context about the Palestinian cause, he was shamed for supporting Hamas and the atrocities that happened.

When a journalist asked if the siege was legal, that labour lady whose name escapes me kept on repeating a rehearsed message of "Israel has the right to defend himself".

They all seem to have gotten a memo that you deflect any question with shaming and bringing up the atrocities against Israeli children.

Atrocities happened in Israel. It sickens me and saddens me deeply. There is no excuse for it. But it can't be used to avoid talking about what is happening in Gaza. I feel we are being gaslighted into not asking questions.

I want to believe they are secretely working on a deal but I don't think they are. And time is not on Gaza's civilians side.

AIBU to think we should be making a lot of noise for our politicians to stop defending the Gaza siege and start speaking up about this? NOW. Not in 3/5/10 days?

It is haunting me at the moment. I can't focus at work, I can't sleep. What the fuck are we letting happen?

The Palestinians are dehumanised by everyone, including by Hamas and the Israelis.

They didn't get a choice in who rules over them.

They're human beings, not insects to be eradicated because they're an inconvenience.

I hope the US manage to broker a deal whereby at least the women, children, elderly and sick can leave via Egypt, but I fear it may be too late.

Shame on the world.

I agree OP. Israel is taking advantage of the world’s horror at the terrible things Hamas has done, to get away with its own reciprocal atrocities towards Gazan civilians. They are using fig leaves like the impossible 24 hour evacuation order to pretend they are not attacking civilians, and the “are you defending Hamas’s actions” line to deflect criticism of their own actions. It’s all horrific.

The British are actually the cause of this. Google
is your friend ;)

Israel has had a land, sea and air blockade around Gaza for sixteen years. Nothing goes in or out without their say so, even across the Rafah border crossing into Egypt. Egypt wants to send humanitarian aid in, but Israel kept bombing the Palestinian side of the crossing because they’ve said no humanitarian aid until all Hamas hostages are home in Israel.

I was watching the BBC news at one two days ago when a journalist in Gaza mentioned the white phosphorus bombs being used, he was promptly cut off. Why? I have complained to the BBC about this.
Today I listened to Grant Shapps speaking on Radio 4 and he was only bothered that the BBC didn't call Hamas terrorists.
I share your feelings. I feel powerless.

What should we do? Contact Richard Boyd Barrett? Are there any politicians in England and Scotland speaking up for Gaza?

Any journalist with a big follow? We need to do something. Anything. Fast.

FM Yousaf of Scotland has been calling for an immediate cease fire:
“In an interview, Yousaf renewed his calls for the UK foreign secretary, James Cleverly, to urge Israel “to agree to a ceasefire, open up a humanitarian corridor, let supplies come in but, importantly, let people come out”.
He said: “The world can’t sit back and witness the obliteration of 2.2 million people. We are all going to have a stain on our conscience if we allow that to happen.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/12/scottish-first-minister-humza-yousaf-tells-of-wars-impact-on-in-laws-in-gaza

"They didn't get a choice in who rules over them"

Unfortunately, many Palestinian DO support Hamas. And support the current actions of Hamas.

"The same poll found that more than half of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank would vote for Hamas’s Haniyeh over PA President Mahmoud Abbas in a presidential election, while just one-third of Palestinians would choose Abbas."

(source: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas#chapter-title-0-1

"According to a PCPSR survey, 58% in Gaza and 42% in the West Bank support Hamas."
(source: https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-palestinians-support-hamas/ )

"Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas."
(source: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah

“It may not be aligned with international law, but, for the first time, Palestinians here in Gaza do not feel helpless.”
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2023/1010/In-Gaza-a-different-view-of-the-Hamas-raid-on-Israel )

Ive found this thread really informative, thank you.

Unfortunately, many Palestinian DO support Hamas. And support the current actions of Hamas.

These polls were prior to Hamas terrorist attacks, so I don’t think it is fair to say that voter polls indicate support for recent actions too. It’s rather like saying all Tory voters from 2019 also support the Rwanda plan and barge prison plan for channel refugees.

I don't know what to do.

Israel’s bombs have killed 500 children since Monday. Though I expect the actual total is many more of you look at drone footage at the current state of Gaza City.

There needs to be an internationally sponsored agreement where Hamas is convinced to lay down its arms and Israel is convinced to stop its illegal settlements and theft of Palestinian land - and worsening the unfolding humanitarian disaster. Neither will whoosh without huge international pressure on BOTH sides including a hearts and minds campaign toward the Palestinians who legitimately feel cast aside and forgotten about by the wider world and left to poverty and occupation - which is why so many of the young generation have tragically looked to extremist groups like Hamas.

Many Israelis do not support the current Israeli government.

There were numerous protests earlier this year regarding government corruption including dismantling their own Supreme Court/judiciary.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-64908051

I am sure many Israelis also do not support the siege of Gaza, it’s bombardment or the pending ground attack.

It’s over simplistic to use voter polls to indicate support for all subsequent actions, especially crimes, by who was voted into power.

the majority of Gazans weren't even alive/older than babies when hamas was last 'elected' so can we stop with this false narrative.

40% of Gazans are under the age of fourteen. Forty percent.

Unfortunately, many Palestinian DO support Hamas. And support the current actions of Hamas

Probably. But something like half of Palestians are under 18 and many more just in their 20s and 30s and 40s. They’ve grown up with withessing increasing land grabs and forced settlements by Israel over the last 20 years, couoled with zero economic prospects and grinding poverty, while all the surrounding nations (relatively) thrive.

People bang on about the mental health crisis among young people in the extremely wealthy and safe UK for gods sake. So it’s not exactly surprising that the children of Palestine are growing up with with a fair amount of anger and despair is it. Hell, I’d be more shocked if extremist groups like Hamas weren’t thriving in such an environment.

@bettingpencil
The majority of Gazans weren't even alive/older than babies when hamas was last 'elected' so can we stop with this false narrative. 40% of Gazans are under the age of fourteen. Forty percent.

And the fact that you will only read this fact or similar in one or two media outlets covering this across the west (if you’re lucky) tells its own story.

The Palestinians are victims of Hamas just as much as the Israelis. They're now paying the price of being under the control of terrorists. I wish people would stop blaming the civilians for these atrocities.

sadmumuk · Today 10:02

The British are actually the cause of this. Google is your friend ;)

ah a sweeping generalisation with no practical relevance to solving today’s situation followed by a cliche and a passive aggressive smiley. Very profound.

yes Britain has responsibility for much of the historic roots of current troubles. But in the last eighty years, has no one else done anything to cause trouble whatsoever?

But if playing pointless, simplistic ‘nah na na nah na’ makes you happy, crack on.

Britain has truly become irrelevant Little Britain when journalists have become dishonest and biased and the people on radio and tv are one sided and the PM is a joke.

a friend and I are going to cancel our tv license

not supporting the bbc anymore!

Did you see the post above about Palestinian opinions polls on support for Hamas? How are that portion of the population who support Hamas victims of it? You'd swear they were completely passive, helpless, with zero free will or agency whatsoever.

I think it's safe to say that people are talking about the adults of Gaza. The ones responding to opinion polls saying they support Hamas, for example.

sorry I forgot the bombing of Gaza only hits the adults who support hamas and not the children who live there which make up the majority

Right now they are helpless with zero free will. We'll blame them when they have food, water, electricity and no Phosphorus raining on them.

Stop trying to derail the thread.

I'll say what I like whenever I like. And I won't be engaging with you.

Also, it is kind of a bit of an undefendable thing to say right now because of the atrocities committed and a bit of propaganda going around to scare people from defending Gazans but Hamas was not up until last week, an Islamist terrorist organisation calling for the genocide of all jews and attacking Israel only because they are jews. They also did not make Gaza live under the Sharia Law (it is actually illegal in Gaza to try to enforce wearing a hijab), did not round women and gay people to rape and kill them and actually did not steal all the money but actually invested in social projects in Gaza.

So OBVIOUSLY, it doesn't excuse or diminshes whatsoever the atrocities but it puts into perspective why Gazans (for whom feedom is actually just not being persecuted by settlers and the IDF) did not mind them too much.