To be sad about lack of attention as I age?

[DogDaysArentOver]

Hi,

I think this is probably quite a 'normal' feeling, but I do kind of judge myself for caring so much.

I'm 40 next year, so a bit of a milestone, but I know I'm not old. However, I used to get quite a lot of attention, which tbh I didn't always like. In fact, most of the time it would make me feel uncomfortable, but there's a difference between being leered at, wolf whistled etc and just that second or third glance.

That's what I miss. Just that simple look of interest. It happens very occasionally now and once again, I judge myself for the little boost it gives me. It doesn't even have to be someone I find attractive. It's just nice to be noticed and not feel invisible!

Why do I pin so much on this? I'm married. I'm settled and not looking for anyone else, so why do I crave that little acknowledgement that I'm still an attractive and desirable woman. I mean, I think I look alright and dare I say, good for my age, but as soon as I stopped looking really young and full of collagen, I basically turned into a ghost.

So, aibu by caring so much? Does anyone relate?...

In their prime, I mean.

Conversely, men who are younger - (like less than 40) and men who are older - so probably 65+, are really nice and polite and courteous toward me. But that generation (middle aged men) are really fucking rude ... I suppose they don't want to be too polite. They don't want me thinking that they fancy me. 😱

There's something in this. I don't actually think it is women 40-60 becoming invisible at all. They think "oh, the younger men must just be after sex..." and "uuugh, the older men are looking for a woman much younger than them" and there's some truth in both of those things, but what is actually the cause of women in this age group feeling invisibile seems primarily to be that - unlike any other age group of women - men their own age (the natural age bracket for relationships/ even relating to other people platonically in the easiest way) suddenly start treating them with contempt because of their own midlife crisis where they can't accept their own ageing and take it out on women their age by being vile to them, leaving wives of 20+ years and desperately trying to chase women 15-20 years younger.

Of course there are losers like this who do this in their younger and older lives but sadly many men who previously seemed like sane humans seem to have a total meltdown when 40-60 and become the worst of this.

I think what is happening here to a large extent is women in that same age group interpreting that as a problem with them. That they are not attractive any more. Even though the attention from much younger and older men proves that is not the case. It's largely a case of a certain type of man's mid-life crisis - the losers who don't realise how gross it is to be chasing women in their 20s when they are in their 40s 🤢🤮 because they can't accept they are not kids anymore themselves, and don't seem to realise how all their friends are laughing about them behind their back for it) being projected onto women's self-esteem and then the women thinking this means they aren't attractive.

I don't think it's the case at all. It's yet again a certain shitty type of man projecting their crap onto women and trying to make them feel like they're responsible for it.

Nope.

I get a different sort of attention now. Men my age no longer notice me. Which is great, I love that.
Very young men help me with doors and let me have seats. I'm much happier with this sort of attention

I was on a bus yesterday. There was a young woman in her 20's out running, and she got leered at by fat, middle aged man at the building site as they dragged off their cigarettes. She was busy running so didn't notice it seemed. They were weighing her up, and I thought how sad it was that those losers thought they had the right to do that to a woman decades younger, who was trying to look after her health. It is like having a sweet stall at slimmers world, and I thought the joke was on them. How frustrating and sad knowing all those ladies that are oogled and leered at would not cast the perpetrator a second glance. Not just for their age, looks etc but also because of their Benny Hill mentality about the value of women...the pretty youthful flowers who suddenly transform at 40+ into the subject of Jim Davidson type mother in law jokes about the tiresome old hag (who happens to know her own value, have her own opinions and won't take abuse from men).

lol but that’s just one random woman. As you can see on this thread, some people like a bit of flirting and banter, some do not welcome male attention. We don’t all confer on every interaction.

I completely understand, I remember always turning heads , that look of interest, wolf whistles, one of them saying hello baby you look nice, I felt so self conscious about it. But now late 30's and I see all the younger ones getting the attention. I think it's normal to want to feel attractive and noticed and as you say a little confidence boost is nice. I also find that lack of a turned head makes me feel old and haggard now

Especially now it's dwindling away and my powers have gone and I've got very few other powers to replace them with 😂

And that's why it's good not to pin your self-worth on your looks in the first place and spend your life and energy on things that matter.

I have had my share of very unwanted attention, and attracted predators as a result. Being 5'11" and very slim etc... there was never any peace. I never wanted to know anybody whose main interest in me is how I look. Nice guys wouldn't even approach you. Too intimidating. And I'm too shy to approach people myself. So you get the assholes, narcissists, abusers, self-obsessed wankers.

I worry so much for my daughter. She is walking around with a neon sign on her head to attract such lowlifes as she gets older. She is stunning and people are magnetically attracted to her already. It's terrifying tbh.

I am using her childhood to praise her for who she is, her talents, her kindness. To value herself not how she looks or needing validation from men to feel good about shallow bullshit that does not matter. And to have rock solid boundaries so any asshole she doesn't know who decides to make comments about how she looks or tries to objectify her and value how she looks while making no effort to learn about her as a person and care for her will be told in no uncertain terms to fuck off.

Embrace it! I get the feeling of needing validation from males. I experienced that a lot when I was younger. I don't think I have 'daddy issues' because I had a good dad. But he definitely didn't give me a lot of praise as a teen. I've since read that, like it or not, a lot of young women get their 'worth as a female' from their fathers. So if a dad doesn't tell his daughter how brilliant she is, how funny and kind, how pretty, how anyone would be lucky to have her etc Then the girl might seek that attention/acceptance from men. I'm sure some will say that's quack science, but it makes sense to me.
I grew out of it anyway. Now I just enjoy being a middle aged woman and don't look at men that way myself, so wouldn't expect it back. I never even think about it tbh. Do you think there might be an underlying reason why you need that validation?

So what is a lone parent of a girl meant to do to protect her from this?

My daughter has me. No father in her life. Autistic so at 10x the risk of sexual assault and rape already. Then daddy issues... no decent male role models in my family. Oh, and she's fucking stunning to the extent that grown men always comment on how she looks all the fucking time now even though she's nowhere near even being a teenager yet. And she's super bright and the master-masker so seems so confident and articulate to strangers but she is actually desperate for people to like her and to fit in and do what they want. That mixed with our toxic culture is such a terrifying recipe. She will be walking around with a target on her head. So with no father to give her what you've said, just me, what am I meant to do?

It would certainly help a bit if as women we were all a bit more protective of each other including the young women among us and very strongly rejected this narrative being fed to young girls that their value lies in how they look and unsolicited male sexually motivated attention, and demonstrated that through our own behaviour in how we deal with it. Rather than lapping it up as some kind of compliment as many posts on this thread seem to condone.

I don't know. I think it was the 'raising girls' book I read it in. If you're anything like some other strong single mums I know, you can heap enough of the right type of praise on her to counter it!

@Nepmarthiturn by the way, I wasn't supporting the view that girls get their worth from their fathers, like that's how it should be! It's just a theory I've read!

I'm trying, but it really does feel like swimming through treacle against the tide. And this thread has been rather depressing in this context, with so many women apparently still happy to derive their worth from men's opinion of how they look and actually think random men objectifying them is a compliment.

No wonder we are getting nowhere with girls' and young women's mental health or any semblance of equality in society or reducing the prevalence of sexual offences or actually getting enough women into senior positions in business and politics to change the systems that are all set up for equality to fail. And the very first place it starts is with little girls being taught that their value lies in being "pretty".

I find it all so depressing.

Oh I know. I wasn't attacking you at all. I know that is probably how it should work: I can imagine it's a huge protective factor. I didn't have that. I wish I had. I can see what a difference it would have made. But I can't give that to my daughter. She has her brother. But what do I do? 😔 She is a walking target. The more I read about it all the more scared for her I am. I will do everything I can to protect her but what we really need is for the values in society to change so that it doesn't take women until 50 to realise that their value doesn't lie in their looks.

@Nepmarthiturn I hear you. I have a very pretty DD too. She's so kind and sweet to everybody, it bothers me that she's such a people pleaser who cares so much what her peers think. I worry it will turn into her seeking validation from males soon. The way society works, it feels inevitable. Me and DH do tell her how smart and brilliant she is. I hope it makes a difference. All we can do it try to give them all the tools to be strong and confident. I do wish as a society that we'd stop making girls feel that their worth is so dependant on their attractiveness to men! Our girls at least have mums who are conscious of this and are trying to counter it, so they've got more chance than most!

And sorry for all the swearing! I just get so worried thinking what will happen in a few years' time. 😣

I think as women we need to take a step back from all of this and say "is this how we want our worth to be judged? Is this how we want our daughters' worth to be judged?".

And act accordingly.

This predatory behaviour is not something to be cherished or lapped up and the loss of it is not to be lamented. Anybody who would ever judge you on that basis is not someone who could ever love you for who you are anywhere so the "attention" is meaningless anyway, and condoning this behaviour does such damage to vulnerable young women who then feel it is normalised and they should accept it. Even worse, take it as a "compliment".

It's no comfort to me that it may stop for me, if it starts for my daughter.

Can we please collectively make it clear to men that no, our value as people does not reside in how we look and we won't accept this bullshit anymore? Men don't value each other in this way, we don't value each other in this way as women, and women don't do this to anywhere near the same extent to men and then you add in the fact that 98% of physically or sexually abusive crimes are committed by men... the ONE thing we can do, is stand together and say "no, our value is not in how we look. Try to get to know me." Not accept it. Certainly not be proud of being the target of it.

If women would all say we will shun men who display this predatory behaviour to women and did that, it would largely stop. Because they'd know it didn't work. This is within our power to change. We can protect young women from this: from having to feel intimidated, from men thinking it's ok to pursue women who are 15 or more years younger, from men telling them that their value is only in how they look and them internalising and believing this even into middle age as this thread shows is all too common still. Girls do not have to grow up believing this crap. We allow this to continue - women, as a group, allow it, by condoning it - and I just hope that at some point people will stop and thing "wtf?!" rather than perpetuate it.

Why can't we be valued and value ourselves on our characters or achievements or careers or the things that men value themselves and each other on?

I might be in denial but I think women dont get less attractive with age!

My best friend is 52 and just went on holiday to some clubbing thing and got chatted up lots.

My Mum is 70 and still gets flirted with (albeit she looks like she's considerably younger)

Why do we have to feel less attractive?

Thank you for replying, and yes absolutely to all of this. It just feels so depressing hen you are swimming against the tide, and I don't even have her father to reinforce what I'm telling her. I am glad there are others trying to give the same message to their DDs though. Such an uphill struggle to counter all the negative messages that are everywhere. I guess this thread just made me sad because people were talking about it in such a blasé way, like it's fine to promote this view of women being valued on how they look. And it's not: it's so toxic.

I really hope there are more parents like you and me than there are parents like the ones who expressed those views. 😔

If I ever wear heels and a fitted dress I’m miraculously visible again.

Ha, was just about to post this! To be fair, I rarely bother with such relatively uncomfortable attire. But it's hilarious when I do. I get the second look ... and then a shamefaced look away again. I'm pushing 70 😂

They're pathetic creatures, they respond to cartoon-like triggers.

To their sons as well, not just their daughters! To treat women with respect, as your equals. Wouldn't say that to your best mate who is male? Don't say it to a woman then.

I have had to crack down to hard already on the misogyny my son was picking up from friends of school and so far, that's absolutely worked. Because they've been treated exactly the same. And the same is expected of him. No behaviour is excused "because he's a boy". He's expected to do his fair share of chores. He is called out whenever he repeats any misogynistic stuff about girls that he's picked up from friends at school.

Can we please all try to raise our children without all of these hugely damaging stereotypes? Men commit suicide in greater numbers than women because from being little boys they are taught to bury their emotions and not form deep friendship bonds based on more than hobbies or sharee interests or "banter" (generalisation of course, but true in too many cases, the lack of proper, meaningful support networks and actually speaking about problems escalates into major mental health problems, or lack of ability to share feelings and communicate and resolve problems in a healthy way leads to marriage collapses). And then you have women hanging their self-worth on male validation, giving up careers, not demanding and expecting to be equal partner financially and in terms of parenting.

None of this is in the interests of our sons or daughters. We can change it. I hope we do.

Sorry for typos: should have learned about my inability to multi-task by now 🤣🤣 but I hope what I meant to write is understandable.

To be honest it’s 25% youth, 25% attractiveness and 50% charisma, attitude and warmth.

Mid 30s here. In my teens and early/mid 20s would get ridiculous amount of attention. For the most part I enjoyed the non creepy attention as I’m very sociable and it just lead to lots of new friends and social interaction.

Late 20s had children and noticed no longer had this attention for a period of 5-6 years. Felt disappointed when I put the effort to glam up on a rare night out for example and didn’t get those second glances.

Mid 30s now and in the past year the attention has come back. My looks haven’t changed - I’ve always taken pride in my appearance. But my energy, warmth and joy from social interactions has returned now I’m no longer constantly exhausted juggling babies/toddlers and work. At the moment, I love job I love, I’m enjoying the kids and parenting more, and I have time for my friends - and that zest for life creates an aura that strangers pick up on- which results in my meeting lots of new people and getting (unwanted) male attention again.

It's just like in real life Tinder to most men i think. They will give attention/an approving glance to any women they like the look of in the hope at least one will IRL "swipe right"
It's a bit of a numbers game in a way....if they do it enough times to ENOUGH women they will eventually get a positive responce back.

Yes, absolutely. From those with low enough boundaries to take such superficial attention from a stranger who knows nothing about them so is viewing them only as an object as a compliment. And yet sadly there are still mot only plenty of women happy to do that, but other queuing up to try to find out how they could obtain this great "honour" 🤢 or lamenting that they don't/ haven't done/ don't think they can/ can any more.

So depressing.

As someone who was obese in their teens and early twenties so would prompt lots of (horrible) attention, I enjoy the invisibility. Ironically, I’m more attractive now than I was at 20 as I run, eat well and have never worn make up. I dress like a grungy teen (except for work) so no one bats an eyelid at me.

I’m also trying to raise my DD and DS that their self-worth is not attached to their looks which is difficult as they are both attractive - just mum bias but people double take at them.

Invisibility is ace!