To be against the attacks on Palestine

[Threemangoes]

What happened in Israel was horrific by Hamas. But why are Palestinians being restricted, bombed, dehydrated and deprived of basic needs because of terrorists? Why is the world supporting Israel commiting war crimes?

Hamas are sick fucks to kill innocents. But it's like history repeating again. 9/11 caused millions of Iraqis killed for what?

Have we learned nothing from the past???

you've been talking shite on every thread related to this topic, but don't stop now

You're on a wind up. I've seen i elsewhere under another username. You can't even accept a middle ground viewpoint.

I have no idea what stakes you have in this in your personal life @Lindtislife but your views are very strange. You actually do not believe that Israelis have been killed because there are photos of Palestinians and none of dead Israelis.

Nobody can find common ground with you.

Read my post again. Israel created Hamas and only they can end by providing Palestine equal rights and freedom and land and homes back. Are you stupid?

I'm not engaging any more with you since you've resorted to random insults. It's dull.

But yes I'm well versed in the history of the region, whereas you sound hopelessly naive.

You are wrong. BBC have confirmed that Palestinian Hamas beheaded babies in their beds and baby seats. There is photographic evidence. Unfortunately it took a while to confirm that Hamas had beheaded babies as the killing frenzy left the bodies badly maimed and damaged. Hamas left a big bloody mess for the Israelis to deal with.

rape can be apart of war
According to the UN rape is a war crime. Hamas didn't just rape Women and young girls the 'traditional' way, they were also sodomised. You can tell from the pictures of girls with blood stained trousers surrounded by groups of excited looking men, which Hamas proudly shared so their brothers and sisters can join in the glorification of violence worldwide.

Whatever your views on the state of Israel, it now exists and isn't going to go anwhere so a bunch of rhetoric about settler-colonialists is completely unhelpful.
** Its just as unhelpful as if you denied the Hamas attack.

Are you saying I can steal your home evict you with nothing with violance and you can't do anything about it because I exist?
And if you protest then I'll l deprive you of basic human rights. Continue protesting then I'll kill your children rape your women and perform a mass massacre because you are now a terrorist.

You are the kind of people Palestinians have to argue with. The victims, the occupants have to prove themselves a million times to be able to live freely in a safe place in their homes. They have to scream and shout for their rights since 1948 but no one listens. To the point where Palestinians are reduced to a strip of land guarded by barbed wire and heavy armed army with licence to kill on a daily basis. Exactly 6000 plus deaths since 2008 compared to 300 Israelis.
Im not arguing with you to make you understand because likes of you are conditioned differently incapable of seeing the truth.

I hope even if 1 person begins to use their voice for Gaza today or starts some research then they will not look back in time and feel ashamed of condoning their genocide.

Can you provide a link to where the BBC confirms this?

@Threemangoes okay I'll engage. Could you explain to me how exactly you think the whole situation should be resolved? I'm not being snide, I'd genuinely like to understand what various people think the sensible solution in the region is.

Not that anything, no matter how bad, would justify murdering innocent Palestinian babies. I can understand the rage of the directly affected Israelis but everyone else should be trying to calm things down, not inflaming the situation.

Two psychopathic, violent, fundamentalist religious leaderships go head to head, murdering children right left and centre. The rest of the world needs to stop them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970/page/2

7:00 update

I think something bigger is going on. Hamas has been supported by Iran for many years and something on this scale has not happened. The fact that Israel is also potentially being attacked on all sides too. Why has it happened now and who benefits?

There is no benefit on the face of it to Hamas or Palestine to drop 1000 terrorists into Israel to be killed. They must have known that Israel would react in the way they have. Hamas leaders live comfortably outside Palestine so aren't affected by the bombing. They also received a very large sum in crypto currency a few days before the attacks. The terrorists were well trained and expensively armed to do something that on the face of it is actually self destructive to Palestine.

I suggest Hamas are guns for hire. Someone has paid Hamas leadership to order the terrorists into Israel. Israel reacts predictably. Palestine is just collateral damage; Hamas don't care about their own people sadly.

Who could have hired Hamas to do this and why now..what else is going on in the world? Not Iran as they could have done this years ago. Someone with significant money, weapons and can train terrorists. Someone like the Wagner group? Who is benefiting with America's attention (and potentially money l, weapons and support) now off Ukraine and on to Israel (one of their main allies so a country the US would be guaranteed to support)........???

That's a great question. What do you think is the answer?

Excellent! Another one of you to victim shame Palestinians.

If you want conspiracy theory then only Israel is benefitting from this attack by eliminating Gazans. A state that has killed 6000 plus Palestinians since 2008 with American tax dollars and UK support wouldn't flinch sacrificing some of their own to start something big for their benefit.

Hopefully this will shut you up from condoning this massacre of Gazans.

Hopefully you will never justify this genocide on any platform again by saying oh I think Russia/Iran/Turkey is behind this you sicko. But I know you won't stop. Luckily in 2023 most people like to see evidence and facts and not word of mouth.

Still some people like you are blind to truth by systematic condition.

That's a great question. What do you think is the answer?

I addressed this in my post you responded to - essentially, no more Hamas. Leaders in Gaza and the West Bank that are willing to accept the existence of Israel. In Israel, leadership that is less jingoistic and has more willingness to negotiate.

How we get there I don't know, it's looking further away then ever.

What is your vision?

Excellent! Another one of you to victim shame Palestinians. 😂

@ForFriends bbc didn't confirm.this. they reported what Jonathan conricus said. Jonathan conricus is Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus is the International Spokesperson of the Israel Defense Forces, responsible for the IDF's international traditional and social media operations, public affairs and public diplomacy.

This does not mean its true!!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyOjOgpACLB/?igshid=MmU2YjMzNjRlOQ==

I'm not sure why you think I'm "victim blaming". I think you are confused. I'm blaming Hamas. They are the perpetrators of the crime. They have committed crimes against Israel and crimes against the people of Palestine by taking blood money while their own people are collateral damage.

I dont think you should conflate the two.

Yes.

Okay you have answered with conditions that Palestine will have to accept first. Do you see the problem with that?

Do you think it's fair for Palestinians to accept and forgive Israel that has forcefully and violantly taken their land and killed generations of them and starved them of basic human rights?

So don't you think a Israel needs to make some major moves first? So let's focus on Israel what can they do to make it fair? Because unfortunately Palestine has nothing left to give anymore.

This is where realpolitik is necessary. As I said, Israel is there now, that can't be undone. So yes Palestinians do have to work with that fact, it's that or remain on a war footing, with further deaths. Those are the only two options.

I'm interested in the US response. Antony Blinken has already arrived in Israel and is resolute that Israel has the US full support. As far as I'm aware, Israel has the money and the means to destroy (or at least significantly harm) Hamas if they want to, but the US seem to be making a big role for themselves already. Why is this? Honestly genuine, not trying to be goady at all question.

I agree, as do most rational people I think. I know very little of the conflict so can't comment but however horrified I was to see innocent people massacred last weekend, I am absolutely dumbfounded that the response has been to cut off water supply to a large population and watch them starve and die from disease while blocking exit points. Sure, I expected a military response and while war is never wanted, sometimes nations have to defend themselves, I presumed this would involve mobilising troops and armed conflict. I am sickened to my core than people around the world are condoning this type of response. What next? If the IRA raise their heads in NI again will it be ok to starve and murder all the Irish? Or a thousand other equivalent scenarios around the world. Why is this different? It does make one wonder if one type of human life is valued over another.

@Dolphin1111111111111111111111111

It is inappropriate to keep reiterating 'But they didn't behead babies, Hamas only killed and maimed babies nicely in their beds', as some posters have done. That sort of whitewash doesn't, well wash.

From the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970/page/2
Spokesman Jonathan Conricus says that Hamas militants did behead babies during their deadly wave of attacks at the weekend.

Conricus says a coroner who visited the aftermath of the massacre at Kibbutz Be'eri had seen the children's bodies and confirmed how they died.

"I admit it took us some time to really understand and to verify that report, and it was hard to believe that even Hamas could perform such a barbaric act," he says.

"I think we can now say, with relative confidence, that this is what Hamas did... there were bodies scattered everywhere, mutilated."

And the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-biden-hamas-attack-holocaust-gaza-displaced-palestine?page=with:block-652783f58f08868e610b92ec&filterKeyEvents=false#liveblog-navigation

In an update early on Thursday, IDF spokesperson Jonathan Conricus has said the military “can say with relative confidence” that infants were beheaded by Hamas militants who attacked kibbutz Be’eri on Saturday.

Reports of infants and other civilians being beheaded by Hamas have been repeated by Benjamin Netanyahu’s spokesperson and at least one IDF serviceman, however these reports have so far been related to the attacks in another kibbutz, Kfar Aza.

The claims were repeated by the US president, Joe Biden, in remarks made to Jewish community leaders on Wednesday, but in comments reported later by the Washington Post, a White House spokesperson clarified that neither US officials nor Biden had seen photographs or confirmed such reports independently and that Biden had “based his comments about the alleged atrocities on the claims from Netanyahu’s spokesman”.

“I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children,” Biden said.

Claims of beheadings have also been reported in Israeli and international media, but have not been independently verified by the Guardian.

On Wednesday, Yossi Landau, the head of operations for the southern region of Zaka, Israel’s volunteer civilian emergency response organization, reportedly told CBS news that he saw children and babies who had been beheaded.

Out of 1,000 Israelis who lived in this beautiful community, 100 were killed. Today, body bags, many body bags, were evacuated from that kibbutz, including those of children, and including those of babies.

We got very, very disturbing reports that came from the ground that there were babies that had been beheaded. And I admit it took us some time to really understand and to verify that report and it was hard to believe that even Hamas could perform such a barbaric act.

But after eyewitnesses came forward, and after a senior official in the Israeli coronary service Zaka came forward on record on CBS news and said ‘yes, I saw the bodies of beheaded babies’, I think we can now say with relative confidence that this is unfortunately what happened in Be’eri. This is what Hamas did to Israeli citizens.”

Tellingly, Hamas has not commented on the claims. Hamas messed up here, they use images of suffering or dead babies, some of which have been proven to be fake, to garner sympathy for the Palestinian cause and know very well that decapitated Israeli babies will lose them support.

Hundreds of Palestinian children have been killed by Israel this week. Blown to bits by bombs or crushed under collapsed buildings.

It's a much repeated cliche, but two wrongs don't make a right. Atrocities in Gaza will only fan the flames.