To be against the attacks on Palestine

[Threemangoes]

What happened in Israel was horrific by Hamas. But why are Palestinians being restricted, bombed, dehydrated and deprived of basic needs because of terrorists? Why is the world supporting Israel commiting war crimes?

Hamas are sick fucks to kill innocents. But it's like history repeating again. 9/11 caused millions of Iraqis killed for what?

Have we learned nothing from the past???

Wow I never would have guessed that in a million years, thanks for clarifying Xenia

I don’t need to be patronising or sweary name calling in this debate. You’ve made some factual errors and you’ve been called out by people who know more. You are very one sided, so it’s neither debate or discussion.

I can't see how starving innocent people and depriving them of water, food and medical supplies can ever be justified. It will also harden attitudes and cause more hatred. The actions of hamas were indefensible but vengeance in the form described is not the answer.

This really does seem to be an absolutely massive problem without a solution.

The thing which I perhaps naively don't understand is that there surely must be people in Gaza who don't support Hamas and their disgraceful acts, is that right? Or is Gaza very, very strongly Hamas supporting? (I know they've been voted in as their government, is it a truly free & fair vote?)

I suppose the part I'm struggling with is that Israel seem to be lining up to absolutely obliterate Gaza and everybody who lives there, seemingly supported by the UK, US etc. Is that right? There doesn't seem to be any sort of humanitarian corridor etc, has that ever happened before?

What an absolute mess.

PragerU are a far right propaganda organisation.

Just to add (I thought I had) that what Hamas have done is obviously absolutely beyond horrific and utterly, utterly disgraceful.

How can we have a conversation when posts are deleted? If you actually read my post MUMSNET.. it was the exact opposite.

You were quoted by Optionyougot on this thread:
"To be against the attacks on Palestine"

People have posted Palestinian opinion polls showing that many, if not most, Gazans do support Hamas. It would follow that an even larger number may not support Hamas but still oppose the existence of Israel as a state. I'm sure there is a minority who don't take either view.

Do you have the answer?

I'm truly baffled about how anyone is picking sides here, least of all with Hamas who clearly instigated this and have been much more ruthless. Let's imagine for a second the fate of Israelis if they take the moral high ground

It's gut wrenching to see videos of Palestinians and Israeli families

They are living in in the open air prison Israel has persecuted them into, depending on aid to eat, what do you want them to do to the super terrorist organisatikn that just outsmarted Mossad apparently?

PALESTINIANS ARE NOT HAMAS.

Why not imagine too being persecuted for decades? Or living in an open air prison with jo electricity, being bombed, running out of food and water for you children?

Or before that, can we imagine, having tyour children burned alive by settlers who are coming to steal your land and house? Or your child shot in the head by the Israeli army?

Can we imagine being Plaestinian for one second or is it never gonna be a thing and we just pick what horrendous crime we are gonna feel is too much?

Sigh.

I’ve been respectful and other posters have been respectful back, I haven’t been “called out”. I’ve corrected factual errors when they’ve needed to be challenged, which is always the right thing to do regardless on where you stand in this debate.

Just been on BBC news.

A man who has lost his entire family to an Israeli air strike - including his father and his pregnant wife.

He's shown crouched over a row of corpses. He's in total shock

Anyone who is horrified by what Hamas did must surely be horrified by this.

I've seen people do just that. They genuinely believe that anything a normal person would call evil is simply an inevitable response to the person's environment. They don't really believe in the existence of free will for people they classify as victims.

You do realise I was agreeing with you?

I've no idea what I want anybody to do @BigBillyButterBollocks I'm genuinely horrified at the whole situation.

What is with the propaganda around Palestinian refugees being refused entry into neighbouring countries because they are problematic?

Of the global Palestinian diaspora, approximately three quarters have settled in Arab countries.

Many countries have not granted citizenship / voting rights because they believe the vast numbers of displaced Palestinians in their countries could threaten the balance of their nations, so they remain refugees / stateless. Much like the British worry all the immigrants are changing their country.

Many of these countries also do not have the resources to fund the education, healthcare etc of all these additional people (again, much like we hear on British news every day), so they keep them in camps which are then funded by the UNRWA.

@flufferknutter

"PragerU are a far right propaganda organisation."

+++

PragerU are most definitely right wing but this does not automatically make it propaganda. Or are you saying that anything from a left wing source is acceptable and anything from a right wing source is propaganda.

Out of interest what specifically in that video would you describe as false information?

Saying that Israel should not cut off food, water and medical supplies to ordinary civilians in Gaza is not picking sides. Why do you call this picking sides?

I don’t think many of us can even begin to imagine what life has been like or what it is like for those people now. It’s possible to feel empathy but that level of trauma is difficult to consider so I wouldn’t even pretend I can try.

People struggle to separate Hamas from the normal people who are just trying to live their lives. The media doesn’t help this! Hamas have blurred the lines- they are terrorists. The average family who are trying to live a normal, every day life are - obviously - not.

@TokyoSushi There are absolutely people in Gaza who don't support Hamas, firstly it's very difficult to tell how many, there is polling which indicates high percentages and some showing more of a mixed bag. Secondly, whether they support Hamas or not isn't of that much relevance as Hamas are the controlling group unless the people of Gaza are going to overthrow them, which would be nigh on impossible (as well as incredibly stupid). Hamas are pretty ruthless, just ask the previous Gaza leaders they ousted who conveniently then went to Israel.

Israel's intention appears to be to retake Gaza, so as to control the area and probably in their terms 'neutralise' the threat of Hamas. Civilians will probably, very tragically be collateral damage and many pushed to Sinai. That being said I don't think Israel's goal is to kill all the people of Gaza, although there is obviously huge venom and resentment and they are still being attacked from Gaza, but was this the Israeli intention they would have bombed more indiscriminately then they currently are, (and which they do have the capability to do) and not risk the losses of a land invasion.

Initially it was suggested that a humanitarian corridor was open at the Rafah crossing into Egypt, IDF leaders said leave this way then retracted it. It sustained damage form nearby shelling on Monday, was reopened and has since closed and reopened several times. The sad reality is though, there is little to no appetite from the Egyptians to currently receive the people of Gaza.

There is a full scale war right now. In the same way, countries such as the U.K. accepted a significant influx of people following the war on Ukraine, I would hope neighbouring countries to Israel to accept any refugees. This is a crisis. That said, I don’t think they aren’t being accepted because they (the people) are ‘problematic’. I think this is a political game and the humans are the pawns.

@BigBillyButterBollocks I can read, there is no need for the caps lock.

I'm not stupid. I KNOW THAT.

I don't understand why you are so keen to amplify Israel as awful. I don't understand why pp is claiming combat is "not the answer". And how not proving food is "never justified" and somehow the worst possible thing out of everything that's happened.

THANK YOU.

Hamas do have to bear their share of responsibility for the civilian deaths that are now ensuing. This is a direct result of their actions. I'm not sure why people are expecting Israel to have a greater care for the people of Gaza than their own supposed leaders who brought this on them in the most atrocious way possible.