To be against the attacks on Palestine

[Threemangoes]

What happened in Israel was horrific by Hamas. But why are Palestinians being restricted, bombed, dehydrated and deprived of basic needs because of terrorists? Why is the world supporting Israel commiting war crimes?

Hamas are sick fucks to kill innocents. But it's like history repeating again. 9/11 caused millions of Iraqis killed for what?

Have we learned nothing from the past???

It’s the supporters of the IOF that are the masters of whataboutery, I think you’ll find.

”It doesn’t matter that they literally kill, abuse and keep millions of people under occupation and oppression because of the ethnicity they were born as. The human animals dared to fight back when they stole their homes and took away their freedom so they deserve everything they get. Israel has a right to defend itself!”

Do you ever actually take a step back and properly deep what you’re supporting?

Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess…

They're a symptom of desperation.

No not at all. Hamas are a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, their aim is the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic society in the historic Palestine region. Remember Palestine was never a sovereign state but a region that was originally Judea, the homeland of Jews and subsequently colonised by the Romans, Ottomans and British. Hamas are not desperate victims, they are criminals and terrorists, murky hateful people doing murky illegal business, drugs, arms, trafficking. They are funded by Turkey, Iran and other dodgy states. Not the kind of company people generally enjoy keeping. People don't maim, torture and kill because they're desperate, they do this because they're full of hate, self righteousness. Not your common garden victim, though they play at the theatrics of victimhood.

Some people on this thread are so naive, banging on about apartheid or the wickedness of the Israelis and the poking of bears. You really cannot see the wood for the trees.

Wake up. This is about the ideological desires of Islamism and Iran's need to undermine the relationship between the Saudis and the Israelis. Generally not much appetite in Israel for Gaza and the security risks, thats why they left (and forcibly removed Israeli settlements themselves) years ago! Commentators are saying we were weeks away from an announcement that would give a 2 state solution and now the region verges on war.

Anyone with an ounce of sense can recognise that the Israelis aren't gong to pack up and disappear. Not because they're evil fuckers who hate Palestinians but because the majority of Israelis equally don't have elsewhere to go. To genuinely believe in a return to pre 1947 borders and keep banging this drum is a fool's errand.

Hamas at every opportunity have destroyed the chance for peace, ever since Hezbollah taught them to suicide bomb they have scuppered all chances for the Palestinian people. They have removed and/or slaughtered the PLO, they have siphoned off aid, they have destroyed infrastructure, removed democracy and radicalised young children to martyrdom. Hamas persistently made the choice which has been most detrimental to the people of Palestine. They have poked too many bears themselves now.

I'm certain thousands will die and it is a horrific tragedy. Israel will retake Gaza, Hezbollah will intervene, there will be uprising in the West Bank with deaths too. There is even talk of the Houthis mobilising long range which will set off the Saudis. Gaza will cease to exist. Most Gazans who survive will likely be pushed into Egypt now and the belief is that with Egypt's national debt so high and needing to be serviced soon, they will take the people in exchange for cash.

Arguing about turning off the power to Gaza is like fussing about locking the door while the house is on fire.

Hear hear @RubyGemStone

Hamas wouldn't be ruling the Gaza Strip if Israel hadn't dispossessed the Palestinian people and trapped them in a defacto prison camp. They're a symptom of desperation.

Nope they are ruling because they stopped holding elections when they started to lose popularity…

Why do you think they don’t have elections?

“I don’t want to get too much into classified, but a warning was given,” he says. “I think the question was at what level.”
So why didn't Netanyahu act. Sheer incompetence or something more sinister.

The clue is in the quote…

Do you think that hate was created in a vacuum? Nothing radicalises men more than the suffering, torture and killing of their loved ones at the hands of occupiers who never face justice. This has been happening for decades - sheer hatred for them and being regarded and treated as human animals by millions of people living freely on the other side of the caged fence has compounded their hate in return. Psychological trauma from years of suffering (often since birth), no freedom and witness to extreme violence, bombings and killings has resulted in an extremist and “nothing left to lose” mindset.

Hammas could return the hostages which may allow Israel to back down.

A good summary @RubyGemStone

Life in Gaza and the West Bank must be awful at the best of times and I feel terribly sad for them, and sickened at the thought and reality of children dying in the bombing of Gaza.

I absolutely don't agree with everything the Israeli government have done, particularly the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

But there is a fundamental disagreement between anyone who supports Israel's right to exist, and those whose argument boils down to saying there shouldn't be an Israel at all. And that is the root of the conflict and really the cause of the suffering of the Palestinian people, because at every stage since Israel's inception they have not accepted that under any terms. As such they have been and always will be an enemy and a threat to the nation of Israel, until they are willing to make peace and remove their terrorist leadership.

They have launched multiple wars and numerous terrorist attacks - ultimately this is why Gaza is an 'open air prison', because a high level of security has been needed to protect Israeli citizens. The same is true to a certain extent of the border with Egypt, they have restricted access due to Hamas launching attacks there as well.

I don't know what the right response is to the attacks by Hamas over the weekend, but the scale and savagery is such that a strong response is inevitable, and warranted. Hamas have to be removed and destroyed, there is absolutely no other viable course of action. The reality of what that means is a complete tragedy, but that is the reality of a war where the enemy uses its own people as human shields.

Do you think that hate was created in a vacuum? Nothing radicalises men more than the suffering, torture and killing of their loved ones at the hands of occupiers who never face justice.

This is the same argument the far right terrorists use.

Psychological trauma from years of suffering (often since birth), no freedom and witness to extreme violence, bombings and killings has resulted in an extremist and “nothing left to lose” mindset.

psychological trauma also impacts Israelis too.

ha

well it’s laughable because there is zero chance of Hamas doing that but I think it could be seen an olive branch of some sort

Me searching for HAMAS in my post 🧐,because you know, HAMAS represents all of the innocent men, women and children being slaughtered in Palestine 🙄.

Yeah - the people the Israeli government has pledge to wipe off the face of the earth are HAMAS, not innocent Palestinians.

We agree 👍🏾.

Most of this thread assumes that the Israeli airstrikes are about vengeance, in total absence of the wider context. Of course some Israelis want vengeance, that's only natural (and others have spoken out forcibly against that). But that's not the main reason for the air strikes right now. First of all, the war is still going on. Groups of Hamas operatives have still been found today inside Israeli cities, 150+ Israeli hostages are in Gaza, and huge numbers of rockets are still being fired by Hamas, meaning that most of Israel's population is running for shelters when they hear sirens, the education system is completely shut down, etc. I live nearly 150km north of Gaza and this evening heard a massive boom which turned out to be a rocket that landed in an open area a few kms north of our town. Thankfully nobody was hurt. Second, the big lesson from this last few days is deterrence. Foremost in Israel minds is not some kind of baseless hatred of Palestinians, it's simply that It's not tenable for a democratic state to have terrorists, who have shown that they are ready to cross every possible red line in killing civilians, stockpiling rockets that can be aimed at 80% or so of the population right on our borders, and Israelis want to see that capability reduced.

It's also important to remember that Hamas doesn't play by the rules of war. Their weapons stockpile is kept in civilian areas and underground tunnel, meaning that any kind of action against them basically leads to civilian casualties. This moves the whole debate into the murky area of proportionality. I found this analysis useful, if sobering:
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/initial-thoughts-on-hamas-s-war

So it's only natural for palestinians to want revenge, right? (Of course it's not!)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/settler-extremists-sowing-terror-huwara-riot-was-a-pogrom-top-general-says/

Palestinian children have been killed (burned alive) by Israeli terrorist, I heard no one say Palestine could bomb Israel to the ground and starve them to get rid of the Israeli extremists? Or even a little "I stand with Palestine"?

psychological trauma also impacts Israelis too

Agreed but the levels are just not comparable.

Israelis have bomb shelters/bunkers, buildings designed to withstand blasts and one of the worlds best defence systems. They also have an army that is funded billions for state of the art equipment.

They have passports and freedom of movement so if they do not feel safe, or they cannot cope with any losses or destruction, they can choose to leave, even if just a short term solution for a break.

They have access to psychotherapists and other mental healthcare if they are struggling.

Palestinians in Gaza have none of the above. They’re physically and mentally trapped.

^ Plus of course the vast difference in numbers of killed, injured, etc that Palestinians in Gaza would have witnessed in their lifetimes compared to Israeli citizens.

So many fake videos circulated in the last few days that the EU had to warn Elon Musk to do something.

I have seen so many videos pretending to portray the attack that have been debunked (videos shared by peopel adamently swearing it was legit).

I realluly wish everyone woild take a step back from the rumours... It's harmful.

Do you think that hate was created in a vacuum? Nothing radicalises men more than the suffering, torture and killing of their loved ones at the hands of occupiers who never face justice.

Do you feel this way about the Nazis too? Or the British exterminating thousands of Pequot Indians? The Armenian genocide? These all happened because the perpetrators had psychological trauma? Of course not, the perpetrators committed these atrocities because they could. Hate is a choice.

I'm sure that some Gazans have psychological trauma. But this is not the reason for Hamas' illegal, hateful, extremist way of life. Hamas choses their actions, 'policies' and style of governing as a means of control over Gazans and to feel like important big shots instead of the insignificant and depraved men that they are.

Many people have the potential to abuse their power if they are not kept in check, Hamas are abusing their power and force ordinary Palestinians who live in Gaza to do their bidding. It's a rouge state. There are no checks and balances. I feel for the Palestinians and Israelis suffering at the hands of these out of control men. I especially feel for the women and children.

I know of a few who live in my region of the UK... what's meant to have happened to me?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyQm8TRotim/?igshid=MmU2YjMzNjRlOQ==

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