To think people don't actually understand the difference between Anti Zionism and Anti-Semetism in the context of the current conflict?

[Fruitandclottedcream]

Every time someone criticises the Israeli State or Zionism ideology, there is always someone who comments shouting about Anti-Semitism and how anyone who questions, criticises or condemns Israel's behaviour is Anti-Semitic. And it's really annoying because it's not true.

The definition of Anti-Semitism is "Prejudice or Hostility towards Jewish people".

Anti-Zionism in the context of the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine is being opposed to Israel's decades long oppression, genocide and apartheid of Palestinians. Including but not limited to leaving people stateless, giving Palestinians less rights than Israelis and creating the open air prison that is Gaza, depriving the people there of water, electricity and food, and bombing relentlessly while not giving anyone a way to escape.

Plenty of Jewish people practice their faith, but are anti Zionist and condemn what the Israeli government are doing.

And plenty of Zionists are Anti-Semites, but support the behaviour of the Israeli government (including a decent chunk of British MPs according to Google)

Disclaimer before anyone jumps on me: I absolutely condemn and despise Hamas and their actions. I've not mentioned them as they're not relevant to my point.

There were evil people in Germany but most of the atrocities were only possible because ordinary Germans joined in because they were scared - they wouldn't shelter people they once had dinner with out of fear

Don't paint all Germans as evil - paint them as human too

So ordinary Germans committed atrocities but were nevertheless not evil because we Jews scared them? And we should have been nicer to them so they didn't exterminate us.

And you presume to lecture me about love.

As I keep learning, to an anti Semite, a Jew is always a Jew.

Exactly this.

Israel's position is 'we deserve to exist.' Hamas' position is 'no, you don't.'

We have not seen Pro-Israeli celebrations spreading graffiti in Muslim areas, chanting genocidal slogans, setting off fireworks, shouting 'gas the Muslims,' or cheering the death toll.

Israel's position is Palestine doesn't exist ?

And if that Jewish person still considered your words or actions to be anti-Semitic, would you still tell them they were wrong?

Whats' that got to do with anything? In order to understand the current situation, OP wants to educate themselves. A great place to do this are Holocaust museum and concentration camps. My post was not in reference to Palestinians. Perhaps all you are able to see is the Muslim Palestinian cause, with no regard to The Bigger Picture or relevant details, that's not on me.

And there you have it: deliberately conflating the legal and moral right of Jewish citizens to defend themselves from Hamas butchers with the actions of Nazi Germans.
My uncle died fighting the Nazis, and my father and his surviving brothers fought in World War 2.
The "great evil" to which you allude is alive and kicking-not just in the atrocities of Hamas, but in the foul comments made by you, Last Train East and others.
I am a Roman Catholic and will be putting up the Israeli flag as a public sign of solidarity with y Jewish brothers and sisters.

Similarly, oppression. I don't object to the use of the word (whilst genocide felt like serious hyperbole). They do oppress Palestinians. But my question is why do you feel this is unique to them? Hamas oppress their own citizens with worse human rights abuses by a considerable measure. Jews are again, oppressed similarly by almost every Arab state. Historically, Jews lived for 600 years as Dhimmi to Muslims, which is my definition - "oppression" and "Apartheid" in it's worst forms
Oppression happens in all aspect of life at higher and lower levels. If a man oppresses his wife, can she says that she can oppress his children from a first marriage because her husband does it to her? Or that their own mother dies it to them at their residence home so why is the finger pointed at the SM? Pointing that other generations have done harm so it justifies doing the same to the next to next generation isn't ok.

I agree to so many things you say but the above comes across as shifting responsibility. It might not be the most important matter, it might not be the worse, but it remains something that has a negative impact.

my

No, not at all. I'm perfectly OK with people disagreeing with me, or making accusations against me. I'm very comfortable with my own views.

Lots of racists are comfortable with their own views, and don't listen when others tell them they are racist.

Many Germans who shopped Jews and Roma were defending their lives

It's pretty pathetic if you think killing children is the way to defend your children

And the fact that you can't see that your children were targeted because Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis soldiers for decades ( recurse this for however long back you want ) is so utterly sad and distressing because until you lose the eye for an eye attitude children on both sides will continue to die

Your children are no more important than anyone else's

the fact that you can't see that your children were targeted because Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis soldiers for decades ... is so utterly sad and distressing because until you lose the eye for an eye attitude children on both sides will continue to die

....this is contradictory

Disagreeing with the existence of the state of Israel is inherently antisemitic.

Yes I agree. But I genuinely don't believe I am antisemitic, as in against someone on the grounds that they are Jewish. I've interned/lived in Israel and I've had this conversation many a time with people (who I'm good friends with). There are many Jews who are anti Zionist, so by default they are antisemitic too. What about ultra orthodox groups such as Satmar, who are very observant Jews, but anti Zionist. How would one argue that they are antisemites?

It's not contradictory

It's trying to say there is a long running cycle of violence between the communities and until that can be broken it will continue

But what is so sad is that people think that continuing the cycle is somehow protecting themselves and their families

But I think perhaps emotions are currently too high for this conversation

Says who?

@feralunderclass not denying the Jewish people a homeland? Erm most people? To my knowledge, international institutions. What would you do to all the Jews in Israel?

Lots of racists are comfortable with their own views, and don't listen when others tell them they are racist
I really struggle with this concept.

It so reminds me when I took the decision to move to sleep in another room. My husband kept going on about how it meant I didn't love him anymore (analogy for being told I'm racist). I explained that I did love him but his snoring really affected my sleep so I had to move. He insisted that loving people sleep in the same bed, so moving meant I stopped loving him. The more I tried to explain, theore I was told I was showing all the signs I'd stopped loving him.

Should I have just accepted that if he felt unloved, it meant that it was and it was all down to me?

We aren't killing children, we are killing anti Semitic terrorists and destroying their weapons, for which we do not apologise.

Of course my children are my everything, and you don't really care as much about my children as you do about your own.

Insofar as our resolve to continue existence offends you, I am delighted to provide offence, and I hope I and my Jewish children continue to offend you for many, many more years.

I said visit a Holocaust museum OP to the OP who wants to educate themselves, which is commendable. Are you the OP or why did you reply 'I have and it is but the Palestinians weren't responsible for any of it.' ?? I have reported your post.

I have no issue whatsoever with the Jewish people having a homeland. I have a problem when that 'homeland' results in the occupation, massacre, displacement of an entire nation. It is very clear cut. No one on this thread who is insisting that the Jewish people should be entitled to emigrate and live in Israel have responded to the question of what should be done for the displaced Palestinians?
This isn't a Jewish issue for me, it's about any occupation. I feel equally as strong about the British occupation of Ireland.

Please read up the statistics. Israel ARE killing children. The figures should chill anyone to the bone.

They should have their own state and I support Palestinian statehood.

The struggle for Palestinian rights has got nothing to do with butchering 40 children in one village, 900 civilians killed, 150 taken hostage. Hamas is destroying the Palestinian people.