To be sickened by Hamas

[MindfullyAmazedHorse]

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens?

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days.

It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them.

I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying.

I am struggling to process these recent events.

Another one! There were Jews living there all the time! As dhimmis under Islamic rule. They had not just landed back after being gone for 1000 years. They were as native as the Muslims.

First up I would like posters not to see denials of atrocities on mn

‘People like you’ - do you mean Jewish? I’m not

I would have been one of the people slating Israel until a few days ago. I truly didn't comprehend what Hamas really was.

And as the British pointed out in the 1930s, one of the great benefits for the Arabs of the two state solution was that all the immigrant Jews would only be allowed to go to Israel after that. So they wouldn't bother the Arabs on their 80% of the territory. The Arabs still rejected it though.

Maybe you'll be the pro-palestine supporter to finally answer this question.

Two sides disagree on something and have been fighting over it for a long time.

One side has shown previously it is willing to stop fighting and see if they can reach some sort of agreement on the issue . The other has said it will never negotiate under any circumstances and will accept nothing less than exactly what they want, no compromise.

Which side is being unreasonable?

You will never believe otherwise. Even if your eyes saw the truth live you will be blind to that. Because it is deep rooted in you to believe in Palestinian occupation. To control them tto cage them. To starve the children, sick, mothers, pregnant women, old, innocent women of water. Of basic medicines and aid. Of a route to leave the region before bombing them. 1055 Palestinians killed in one day. Now a slow death of civilians by dehydration began. You are sick. Your ideals arre sick. Your opinions are sick.

Just to stop the victim blaming of Palestinians in their own extermination.

1. Hamas spends money on Bombs, Guns, ect... because they are trying to fight for the survival of Palestinians, which is threatened by a strong army. If only they stuck to military targets (or military targets with a side of civilians like Israel does)

2. Hamas is actually helping the civilians stuck in GAza with no hope of a future, totally depending on aid to survive. It's a bit of a mafia situation where one government let you down and a criminal organisation offers you the help you can't survive without.

3)Israel ensure Palestinians are treated and live like subhumans, especially in Gaza. The everyday Palestinian in Gaza only have so much power against Hamas. I mean, they managed to surprise Mossad, what do you want underfed civilians to do against them? Knowing that getting rid of Hamas is signing their own end at the hands of Israel?

See what position Israel has put Palestinians in?

Exactly. All this arguing over history and the rights and wrongs of the thing is pointless abd just leads to more bloodshed. Until Gaza has a government that the Israelis can negotiate a settlement with Israel is going to continue its "might is right" approach to the situation and nobody is going to stop them. It's not about being pro-Israel, it's about recognising that Hamas are holding up the two-state settlement with these ridiculous, provocative acts of terrorism - it simply isn't true that they have no other option but violence.

Please stop this. Hamas are terrorists who committed atrocities and filmed themselves doing it. People are "pro Israel" because of the barbaric actions of Hamas. Making false equivalence is just trying to divert from the reality that the world now sees exactly what Hamas stand for.

I'll never forget the massacre at Shabra and Shatila Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon in the 1980s where the then Israel proxy the Phalangists went into massacre refugees in the camp whilst the IDF commanded by General Sharon surrounded the place to prevent anyone getting out. So many terrible things have been committed by both sides in these biblical lands sadly, and I don't see any end to them.

Many of the bodies found had been severely mutilated. Young men had been castrated, some were scalped, and some had the Christian cross carved into their bodies.[71]

Janet Lee Stevens, an American journalist, later wrote to her husband, Dr. Franklin Lamb, "I saw dead women in their houses with their skirts up to their waists and their legs spread apart; dozens of young men shot after being lined up against an alley wall; children with their throats slit, a pregnant woman with her stomach chopped open, her eyes still wide open, her blackened face silently screaming in horror; countless babies and toddlers who had been stabbed or ripped apart and who had been thrown into garbage piles."[72]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

It's possible to still criticise the Israeli govt for their policies and actions in recent years though. It doesn't have to be black or white, and it's certainly not a black and white situation at all.

@cucumbersaladextacold

*People who are pro Israel? How can you be when the following is true:

1. They took over an already existing people's land

They didn't, you have a twisted version of history. If you read the thread here and the one yesterday the full history is correctly told with full citation. If you read it you will see what you have stated above is completely untrue

1. They have marginalized these people and pushed them into living like refugees over the past 70 YEARS.

Also, if you read here you will discover that this is also not true. They marginalised Jews for thousands of years -read for yourself, it is historical fact

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries

*You should also read the thread to find out why they live like they do (their leaders choose to focus resources and aid on terrorism rather than citizens). So while Israel certainly are very much in the wrong in recent years, the Israelis have faced 75 years of unrelenting aggression from groups which simply will not accept anything less than Israel to give up their country.

1. I do not condone the killing and abuse of anyone. That is barbaric and disgusting. Islam does not support it at all. As a muslim, my opinion is it is anti-islamic. Hamas is a monster that was created by Israel. By what Israel did to the Palestinians for decades.

Hamas is not a monster that was created by Israel. I am sorry. It is a monster that has been created by Islamic fundamentalist extremists. That is not an insult to your religion, other religions have had such extremists too. But ultimately similar groups have popped up such as ISIS, the Taliban, A Quaeda. They cannot blame other. Jews were subjugated, murdered and opressed more than any group in history and never once turned to terrorism

1. But you are not seeing the wood for the trees. The people of Palestine have SUFFERED for decades. This is their land. Where was your outrage when this was happening?

It is not "their land". At the time partition plans were drawn up in 1936 Jews were 28% of the population. They were on this land 1000 years before Islam was conceived. And they lived in total subjugation to Islam for 600 years without raising weapon to them. They simply asked for a right to have their own share of land to live with their own customs, laws and beliefs and to be allows equal status. As a human being you should not deny them that. They are no less worthy of those things than Muslims.

Well according to many on here during a war you are supposed to provide aid, resources, and equipment to your enemy AND allow them unrestricted access to your country.

Letting hostages go doesn't seem all that far fetched in that context.

Also, if you read here you will discover that this is also not true. They marginalised Jews for thousands of years -read for yourself, it is historical fact

Ah well, two wrongs famously make a right. 🙄

Mumsnet has deleted a few of your posts. 🤷‍♂️

I was just reading more further back on the conflict.

How were Britain ruling palestine for a while.

Did they invade it?

Then was it Britain and America that partitioned Israel and Palestine? I just read a source that said that Britain suggested the partition while Palestine was under British rule, and then the USA agreed with the partition and signed off on it.

So Britain has a responsibility for some of the problems too

They are now bombing the only escape route and check point (the Egyptian one) Gazans refugees fleeing can use while saying "why do Gazans not leave if they don't condone Hamas", "We are just bombing military targets, why do Gazans not leave?". The absolute vile cruelty... And the world is too scared to speak up.

You said 'they took over an existing people's land'. It was not the Arabs' land. It was not the Jews' land. They both lived there.

What I would have expected is that the Arabs would have understood perfectly why after imposing centuries of dhimmitude on the Jews, the Jews would want to govern themselves from then on. I would have expected the Arabs to be happy with 80% of the land going to their state and 20% to the Jews, as they were offered in the 1930s. As a kind of bare minimum apology for the yellow stars and all that. I'm yet to hear a single good, as in moral, answer as to why the Arabs refused even that.

Do a search for Lemony and read her posts. She's explained it a few times.

@Threemangoes

Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Their recent actions have clearly proved that. Your defence of them throughout this thread shows a complete lack of compassion or understanding of the reality of who and what they are. Some of your posts have been deleted because I have reported them to MNHQ who have clearly agreed that they were unacceptable. That you continue to argue and defend the indefensible exemplifies the intractability of thought on this issue.

"Why don't Israel allow Palestine equal rights and resources in a multi cultural state to end this vicious cycle?"

Arabs living in Israel can own property, businesses, receive education (in arabic in some settings) and healthcare on the same basis as Jewish Israelis. Street signs are in Hebrew, Arabic and English in many places. They can vote and have representation in the Knesset. Gaza is run by Hamas who have made it very clear that they welcome no interference from Israel, so Israel cannot 'allow' anyone living there anything.