To be sickened by Hamas

[MindfullyAmazedHorse]

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens?

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days.

It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them.

I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying.

I am struggling to process these recent events.

You’re twisting what I’m trying to say and again patronising me. Please, educate all of us on this: Do Palestinians in West Bank have free movement around West Bank? Or are they restricted by road blocks, checks etc? Do Palestinians in Gaza have access to their families and hospitals in West Bank? Do palestinians in West Bank have easy access to healthcare? Do Palestinians in Gaza have easy access to fish in their own waters? Are they free to set up an airport so they can import and export stuff? Are they free even if they had resources to build hospitals, schools or is there a risk that these would be bombed anyway? Can they choose to emigrate? Do Israeli government subside Israelis to come and live near Gaza border and in West Bank and is there an agenda in this? Why has Israeli gov bombarded the border with Egypt?
people in the uk can move and seek healthcare on other countries, loads of people go to turkey for dental care for instance. Are Palestinians free to do that or would they be likely denied a permit? I could write more questions, but really need to get on with my day.

Are you for real? They took her and her babies hostage.

They are at serious risk of torture and death. They are political pawns.

Oh but because the terrorists said on camera (!!!!) that they won't hurt her, that's all fine then? If they had no intention to hurt her, they'd let them all go ffs

Yes there were jewish people in Palestine. What does that have to do with them taking over the whole country and suppressing those living there?????

What do you suggest the Palestinians do? Leave?

It is a complex issue, and to be frank, the British government of the time deserves a lot of the blame for creating the problem after the 2nd world war.

The Palestinians definitely have an axe to grind for a number of things that the Israelis have done, however allowing Hamas to form a government in the Gaza strip and then attacking innocent people is indefensible.

Had Hamas simply attacked military targets (and did this in the past rather than suicide bombings in markets) I suspect a lot of the western world would have a lot more sympathy.

It is not an unreasonable solution to have two states and have Israel withdraw to pre-1967 borders, but Hamas needs to be removed as a starting point and the Palestinians commit to not killing innocent people.

If they were hamas they would have just killed them.

Google the word "hostage" please.

@Daftasabroom

But the foundation of Israel wasn't some benign beacon of light and peace in the desert. It was a defacto invasion, colonisation, and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Palestine. Which continues to the present day

No. It wasn't. It was a land that had belonged to Jews, that they were turfed out of and kept in servitude to their invaders for millennia. Then the British took over after winning the war, and they decided that the 28% Jewish population deserved liberation and their own state in their homeland. The Arabs, who never had power of the land anyway, then reacted just as Hamas are acting now. Chucking all their murderous toys out of the pram because they want complete dominance even if it means everyone suffers and dies until the end of time.

And "propaganda".

Don't be stupid. I'm not denying the atrocities. I asked for evidence of beheaded babies and there is none. Poster pasted links of the concert attack which is real.

@cucumbersaladextacold Reading people on here spreading propaganda while accusing anyone defending Palestinians to try to gaslight is so weird...

They keep on repeating the same thing again and again, nitpicking tiny details and COMPLETELY ignoring anything else to create a narrative that suits them.

Israeli propaganda is very similar to Russian propaganda. It makes you want to bang your head on the wall.

"Gaza is an open air Prison" "Nah, it isn't. They can even eat Mango!"

"Palestinians are forced to live under an Apartheid" "What? No they aren't, they chose to live in Gaza with Hamas", "No, I mean the West Bank, all that" , "What? but they can eat Mangoes in Gaza!", "Hum? No, but you know, the apartheid, the check points, the streets Palestinians can walk on, the houses being stolen", "What? Would they eat mangoes in Gaza if there was an apartheid?"

Bang head on wall

I was just reading further back on the conflict.

The Nazis are also to blame for this.

Hundreds of thousands of European jews went to live in Palestine during world war two, as they could not stay in Europe, or they would be killed. So they mass emigrated to Palestine.

What the Nazis did is still causing problems today.

@BigBillyButterBollocks

How will you feel if the whole thing turns out to be atrocities propaganda to justify the massacre of Palestinians (including babies) and disgust people so much they don't say anything? And you actively spread it?

Hamas are taking videos of themselves murdering innocent civilians and sharing them......and your take on this is that WE are "spreading propaganda" against innocent, err, terrorists

It is not an unreasonable solution to have two states and have Israel withdraw to pre-1967 borders, but Hamas needs to be removed as a starting point and the Palestinians commit to not killing innocent people.

I agree, but both sides need to commit to "not killing people".

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

6,408 Palestinian fatalities in oPt from 2008 to last month.
308 Israeli fatalities in oPt from 2008 to last month.

I'm sorry but that is totally wrong. It was a fait accompli from the British government on the Arabs who lived on the land.

To then equate that for Jews who lived there 1000 years before is incredibly obtuse.

They're only non citizens because Israel have cornered them into Gaza where they're trapped. Every human deserves human rights and Israel have denied Palestinians these for too long, and here we are now. Stop pretending Israels actions do not need to be addressed within the context of this awful turn of events. Your tunnel vision is terrifying, but that is what religion does best I suppose, brainwash its followers into ignorance.

No your post denied atrocities hence the deletion

Insults won’t help you btw

Do you think the British offer was unfair for some reason? Why do you think the Arabs rejected it several times?

If you believe that being marginalised and
oppressed in your 'own lands' for 70 YEARS entitles you to peace and freedom then surely you must also believe that being marginalised and oppressed in your own lands for over 1000 YEARS puts you at the front of the queue?

Exactly. What hamas did expect after killing 40 babies plus families and young innocent people? Whatever happens now to Palestinian people's is Hamas fault. Why Hamas was spending the money in bombs, guns etc instead of helping their own people? Maybe spend the money in getting solar panels, water etc for your country instead of plotting how to kill 40 innocent babies!

We never left Israel. There have always been Jews there. Maybe not always in great numbers (not by choice!) but there has always been a presence.

Life is not fine for Palestinians in Gaza, no. Partly because of Israel, partly because of their own leaders. I'd honestly put it at 50-50 for blame. I'm sure you'd disagree but honestly, Hamas don't give a flying f**k about Palestinians. They massacred Jews knowing full well there would be retaliation from Israel and that most likely thousands of their own would end up dead as a result. They just don't care.

For Palestinians elsewhere - I don't see their kids needing guards outside their schools. My kids do. So Palestinians in eg Europe arguably have much better lives than Jews in those same countries. We're not celebrating their deaths on the streets of Manchester or Sydney. We're not calling for them to be gassed. There is no constant threat against them just for being Palestinian. There is a constant threat against my young children for being Jewish. Why don't you seem to care about that? Not just you, of course. I mean in general. For what it's worth, my family were also kicked out of their home countries and had to then start again. So they did. Why don't more Palestinians outside of Gaza and West Bank do the same? Why do they think they have a right to land in Israel when I don't have a right to land in Iraq?

I hate what Palestinians have been going through. I really do. I don't agree with a lot of Israel's actions. But I don't agree with any of Hamas' actions. They're not freedom fighters, they're fucking scum of the earth terrorists who just sacrificed thousands of Palestinians in order to terrorise and kill Jews.

You're using the False Conclusion Fallacy.

Why would any terrorist organisation put out propaganda where they claim to be protecting people?

Simple - to convince audiences at home and abroad that they are defending the people. And ONLY they are defenders. Its about trying to create legitimacy for their terrorism where they hope to gain sympathisers known as useful idiots.

It's also about trying to counter the narrative of their terrorism that they target innocent people.

The Hamas terrorists in the video are NOT genuinely showing their humanity as you claim. They fully intend to use that poor woman and child as HUMAN SHIELDS. The United Nations, NATO StratCom COE and most governments have confirmed over years now Hamas routinely use civilians as human shields.

It's not genuine.

In conflicts, civilians who hold weapons and use them on others CAN be shot. They lose ANY civilian protection afforded them under International Humanitarian Law whilst firing weapons or engaging in hostilities. Best not to carry a gun to shoot at a State's armed forces. Civilians using a gun to defend themselves against terrorists such as Hamas, PIRA, FARC, ETA, etc is risky, but understandable.

I haven't deleted anything. But people like you will never change. You will never favour Palestinians having equal rights as Israelis.

For people who are pro Israel without any consideration for Palestinian rights, are you also pro Russia and not Ukraine?