To be sickened by Hamas

[MindfullyAmazedHorse]

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens?

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days.

It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them.

I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying.

I am struggling to process these recent events.

That's the thing, I don't 100% agree that it's their land. It's not as if there were no Jews at all in the region before WWII. I don't think we help the situation when we support that kind of distorted view of the situation. It's possible to challenge that propaganda, while also agreeing that any settlement must involve giving Israel giving back the territories they've gained in various conflicts over the past 80 years.

I thought the patents of shani louk confirmed she was alive and in a gaza hospital??! There is so much misinformation out there and on mn.

No, Hamas claimed that. They will then get to claim in a day or two that she was killed by an airstrike. This is an incredibly cruel thing to do to her relatives.

She was clearly very dead in the footage.

Does anyone follow oren ziv on twitter? He was on a 'media tour' (sickening description) of the village hamas entered and said there were no reports of beheading and he didn't see or hear of anything like that.

I think mnetters need to try their very best to not share false information. The occupation must end, whether Israel wants this or not. Its not their call. Their government is a white supremacist fascist one and needs to take responsibility for decades of brutal apartheid. You cannot keep 2m people caged up ad infinitum. Where are the global powers calling for peace, restraint, discussion? Enough people have died now. Stop the killing on both sides. It's the vulnerable who pay the price.

@Coffeerum

Me: they do not kill the elderly and children deliberately. They do not kidnap women and kids. They do not murder young women and parade their nude body through town in jovial celebration while spitting on her corpse and filming it for her family to watch. They do not video themselves killing a Grandmother and upload it to the Grandmother's facebook wall so the family can watch her murder. I personally watched a video of them behead one man - a civilian

You: This is the exact same as the Israel state though and yet people seem to refer to that as an army, interestingly

When?

When have you seen Israel kidnap women and children?
When have you seen them murder young women and parade their corpse through the street spitting on it?
When have you seen them behead a civilian?
When have they videos themselves killing a civilian Grandma and uploading it to her facebook for her family to watch the murder?

None of this has EVER happened. I have never heard of anyone CLOSE to doing this except ISIS and even they were not nearly that bad!

This is just embarrassing now!

@LemonyTicket Historic; Israel was founded in the years following the Holocaust to (among other reasons) provide a home for Jews wherever they may be. The nascent State of Israel sought to be a beacon of immigration for Jews in the post-WWII years and remains that in principle - it is a safe haven to all Jews who wish to come.

But the foundation of Israel wasn't some benign beacon of light and peace in the desert. It was a defacto invasion, colonisation, and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Palestine. Which continues to the present day.

The recent actions by Hamas are abhorrent, but it isn't hard to understand why.

Not quite. She said:

"We now have evidence that Shani is alive but has a serious head injury and is in critical condition. Every minute is critical."

But there is no further information or independent verification.

I am glad some journalists have some decency left in them.

Does anyone follow oren ziv on twitter? He was on a 'media tour' (sickening description) of the village hamas entered and said there were no reports of beheading and he didn't see or hear of anything like that.

In fact, the BBC does report the Kfar Aza massacre. They actually use the term "decapitated". Why are people denying this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67065205

Actually I found @LemonyTicket post really informative and helpful.

And when I read your other post I too thought, ‘but you are talking about Palestinian citizen’s wanting to access Israeli services’. It’s not patronizing to point out that fact, or the other facts Lemony gave, it’s actually absolutely relevant to do so.

Funny that. Sky News have just shown corroborated evidence that it did happen. And the videos taken by Hamas themselves show that it happened. Trying to deny reality to support your point of view is cognitive dissonance.

Because people lie and media spread it lie fire without verifying. Read my previous post and read about atrocities propaganda. This case reeks of it.

Turns out, she wasn't dead. And she is receiving treatment in a hospital in Gaza at the moment (according to her mother, good source, I'd say).

The same mother who, desperate with grief, described her dead daughter as unconscious.
She was not being rushed to a hospital in that footage. No-one was medically assisting her or making her comfortable. She was being paraded.

That is an EXTREMELY poor argument chock full of logical fallacies, especially the Strawman Argument Fallacy!

At no point did I say anything close to that. Hamas are terrorists who are highly skilled in propaganda AND have a disregard for civilian Palestinian & Israeli lives.

I will take your ridiculous post as evidence you DELIBERATELY tried to mislead everyone here about the video you posted. After all, you FAILED to mention it was of "Palestinian fighters" aka Hamas. 🤷‍♂️

@BigBillyButterBollocks I feel like people, having exhausted the "both sides/they asked for it" argument, are moving on to the "it never actually happened" phase.

Unfortunately Israeli 'sources' have form for spreading outright lies and propaganda.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shani-louk-mother-hamas-israel-gaza-hospital-b2427642.html

So pleased to see that Shani Louk is alive, her family must be beside themselves.

Shani louk is alive. I'm so happy. I cried when I heard that.

Hopefully she will recover

I feel like some people are disappointed that certain things never actually happened.

I can't believe you post bollocks like this while accusing other posters of bias and oversimplification.

DIdthey show evidence of people having been taken hostages (and having had their hands attached) and killed (either by Hamas or cross fire) or did they show evidence of babies and people behaded?

How will you feel if the whole thing turns out to be atrocities propaganda to justify the massacre of Palestinians (including babies) and disgust people so much they don't say anything? And you actively spread it?

There is nothing wrong to ask if an official source (government or army) confirming it (the beheading).

Indeed. It's DARVO tactics.

The greatest threat to her now is probably the Israeli bombs raining down on Gaza

What do you mean? It did happen. Hamas is responsible for the death of many jewish settlers. Obviously.

But the beheading of babies (and grown ups) is dubious, yes. Instead of being petty, show me a Israeli official confirming it?

People who are pro Israel? How can you be when the following is true:

1. They took over an already existing people's land

2. They have marginalized these people and pushed them into living like refugees over the past 70 YEARS.

I do not condone the killing and abuse of anyone. That is barbaric and disgusting. Islam does not support it at all. As a muslim, my opinion is it is anti-islamic. Hamas is a monster that was created by Israel. By what Israel did to the Palestinians for decades.

But you are not seeing the wood for the trees. The people of Palestine have SUFFERED for decades. This is their land. Where was your outrage when this was happening?

I'm genuinely confused by the amount of people who seem to think Jews don't have a legitimate link to Israel. Where do you think we originated from? Why would we have built two temples there if we didn't also live there? Yes, there has since been a mosque put on top of our temple, but that doesn't change the fact that it was there first.

Honestly, where do you all think Jews came from?

No, I don't think that because we were there first we should kick Palestinians out of their homes. But likewise, they shouldn't kick us out of ours. Or, you know, slaughter us in our beds.

We need to learn to live alongside one another, which isn't possible while Hamas are at large. So get rid of Hamas and then let the Peace talks resume.