To be sickened by Hamas

[MindfullyAmazedHorse]

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens?

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days.

It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them.

I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying.

I am struggling to process these recent events.

What on earth? You think the Brits went off to ask the Egyptians for permission instead of the people actually living in the mandate territory?!

@Stylestuck The antisemitism on here is sickening. There is no way there would be celebrations over the massacre of any other minority group. Rallies worldwide where people chant “gas the Jews” are happening and not prevented.

No I think this comment is entirely unreasonable. Where have the comments on this thread or the other threads on the topic resembled anything like the things you mention?
No one had claimed that antisemitism doesn’t exist but what is your basis for the antisemitism “on here” being sickening? Absolutely none of those things happening in the wider world have been anything other than condemned on here as far as I can see.

Absolutely.

This was my solution or idea I posted earlier but as everyone only reads there own and the next post it wasn't responded to ---

The problem is the surrounding Arab states who don’t want Israel to have a state.Hence Palestinian refugee camps in Jordan for decades.

Egypt,Syria etc could gift land to the problem and give Palestinians a home land -important sites could be shared. Rich oil states could fund it.

But they won’t fund aid to Palestinians -I don’t know why.?different Muslim beliefs. And the US and rich Jews in the US make sure Israel can fight back which perpetuates it as US probably did in Ireland.

As are you just focusing on one part. I tried to show how the Shoah wasn't in a vacuum due to how the Jewish people were treated in Europe and UK for centuries.

And no amount of persecution can make subjugation and persecution of another people be okay.

Read more history that isn't only slanted to your beliefs.

There are Jewish historians who have written tomes about Islamic-Jewish relations. Read some books and become educated to the wider picture.

I also come from a people that were enslaved, persecuted and dispossessed. But I still don't think that it would be okay for someone to then enslave, persecute and dispossess those people or their descendants.

How saddening and upsetting that you just want to focus on persecution.

It's getting late here so I have to go and do my domestic duties (cooking lol). So I'll wish you a good day 💐

I read everything. No that was not the problem back in the 1930's and 1940's when the British offered a two state solution and the Jews accepted it and the Arabs refused it. As in the representatives of the Arabs living in the Mandate rejected it, more than once.

The Peel Commission report explains one of the reasons the Arabs refused it:

'Partition means that neither will get all it wants. It means that the Arabs must acquiesce in the exclusion from their sovereignty of a piece of territory, long occupied and once ruled by them. It means that the Jews must be content with less than the Land of Israel they once ruled and have hoped to rule again.'

Skip to the conclusions, they're fascinating.

Text of the Peel Commission Report (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

I'm starting to suspect that the constant blaming of the Brits for the situation is just standard blame dumb whitey colonizer stuff.

@samupnorth

"Israelis have killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and that's a fact"

(Seconds later)

"We’ll probably never know because in the West, a Palestinian death does not get the same coverage as an Israeli death . Another fact for you"

So which is it?

a) It's a "fact" hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been killed by Israelis
or
b)"it's a fact" that we will never know?

I think I can summarise:

• One side have literally stated their sole objective in life is to kill every Jew possible - and they actually pay people money to do it
• One side will stop at no depths of depravity, from deliberately seeking out a baby for murder or strapping a suicide vest to one of their own children
• Despite that, the data says less than 3000 civilians have been killed over 18 years (which is amazing considering the first two points)
• You don't understand what the word "fact" means

Now, stop making things up and go and have your cereals.

Do you denounce Anti-Semitism?
Do you acknowledge that Hamas are Anti-Semitic?
Do you acknowledge the Iranian regime are Anti-Semitic?
Hezbollah too?

I would like to hear that from you.

You might want to read up a bit around your second paragraph.

Post after post of antisemitic bile has been deleted across multiple threads on MN.

I've reported examples myself and MNHQ have actually been quick to act on them.

I'm not surprised they have acted, though, given that some of what we've seen was not only absolutely vile and hateful but probably downright illegal.

MNHQ must be as appalled as many of the rest of us by just what's being posted here in recent days.

Google. Or go out and buy a newspaper this morning.

Can you clarify who 'they' are?

Actually, I asked you where you were getting the information that you quoted. And you still haven't answered that.

Is it an eye for an eye then? A baby's head for a baby's head? Break a girl's legs and spit on her for breaking a girl's legs and spitting on her?

@Threemangoes One side wants anything they deem antisemitic censored, the other wants anything they deem islamophobic or racist censored. Everyone other than a minority of us demands censorship. How exactly do you know it's merely a silencing tactic when your opponents do it but not when your side does it? I'll tell you the answer, you don't.

This.

@Coffeerum

I made a long post on here explaining what antisemitic content I had seen. it's about 1 page back, so you either didn't bother to read it (in which case your opinion on the antisemitic content can't be relevant as you've not read the thread) or, you have had it explained, read the explanation from an actual Jew, and dismissed it.

This is yet another problem with antisemitism in Britain, in that the textbook definition of antisemitism is practically word for word the same as the definition of islamophobia. They are identical working definitions, bar with a few words changed. The problem is, despite that, when it comes to Jews, the people engaging in it will be told they are doing so and will dismiss it as poppycock.

Not in a million years would someone like you be listening to two Muslims saying "the islamophobia here is appalling" and find yourself responding with, "no actually, you are wrong". You'd immediately listen and go and think about what you were saying. Use the MacPherson principle, always, with racism. Always.

The reason why you don't, is likely that in your eyes, a Muslim is "brown", some kind of underdog, some kind of victim and a white Jew can take it. They are, after all, the baddies here, right? The real life picture is that there are many Muslims (most probably) who are whiter than me, and I am a refugee. Several times over.

The kind of language and narrative used here makes me and my family extremely uncomfortable and another Jewish lady has said the same. You want to reframe it as "we don't like criticism of Israel" but both me and the other Jewish lady both don't support the Israeli government. It's nothing to do with that. It's to do with a serious blind spot of some to take antisemitism seriously.

Yet the left does literally the exact same thing following every jihadist attack in Europe. You know that, right? I've been told the difference is that Jews are a minority, which makes absolutely no sense.

It's an incredibly complex situation that can't be summed up in a few sentences but here is my stab.

Hamas are internationally recognised as a terrorist movement they have a political group mandate too which in recent years has been governing the Gaza Strip. What happened at the weekend was the largest unprovoked attack in a while, but no level fighting is not uncommon. Do not confuse hamas with the mainstream Palestinian authorities most of which do not support them at all.

The question now, and was addressed by eu authorities, is whether Israel's response is proportionate and following international law. Gaza has many civilians living there, is it right to not consider their fate? So difficult, my friends living in Israel are despairing at the response of the Israeli government because as always they are too heavy handed yet hamas needs to be stopped! Glad I'm not a politician.

By the way neither can be truly religious in my opinion because both religions would not condone the actions the leaders are taking, I've not met a single Muslim who approves of the actions Hamas take and of my several Israeli friends, none support their government's long term treatment of the Palestinians either / this isn't about right now, this is long term policy and ultimately as so often the U.K.s actions in the 19th century caused so many of the current problems!

Exactly, it’s such a complex topic and people just want to see everything very black or white. Of course Hamas is awful but Israeli government is absolutely not helping the matter and is not looking at long term solutions or otherwise they would be more focused on negotiating and supporting Palestinian civilians. It’s absolutely awful how Gaza people live and in what conditions, it’s a slow death and that makes people desperate to accept extreme measures. It’s such a massive contrast between them and the people who attended the festival and their lives. That’s not condoning Hamas, but seeing complexity of this situation. It’s really sad on both sides and they are neither side is doing anything to get out of the lifetime of trauma, they are making it worse for future generations. But Israel has more resources, education and power to change things for everyone. War is not the answer.

@JoanOfAllTrades

Read more history that isn't only slanted to your beliefs

I have explained I have a degree in theology with specialism in ancient Israel and a masters in modern middle eastern history.

I am quite sure I have read enough history, and that the universities I attended do not offer special qualifications slanted to one's beliefs. I am also quite sure that given I am Arab I have a better grip on the situation than someone who's read a bit.

The narrative you gave over was garbage, designed to make the Muslims in the middle east sound like they were our best pals before the meanie, evil, white people messed things up. This is complete lies.

We were being lynched in the street at worst, and at best, we were second class citizens the entire time.

I just read a really depressing wikipedia entry about the use of child suicide bombers used by people like the Fatah, hezbollah etc

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups

How can you happily strap bombs to your own kids. I think there have also been numerous deaths of children building tunnels as well. People suggest Israel does the same things and I’m sure there are examples of Israelis committing awful crimes but I don’t think they encourage this kind of thing.

I’m not sure that hamas really give a shit if kids die in Gaza or the West Bank either.

Hezbollah and Hamas have been a tragedy for Palestinians, it is truly horrible.

Good point about the religions. That’s the world history isn’t it though. The people who shout the most about god are not really the most ethical.