Page 18 | To be sickened by Hamas

MindfullyAmazedHorse · 2023-10-10T21:08:25+00:00

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens? I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days. It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them. I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying. I am struggling to process these recent events.

LemonyTicket · 11/10/2023 07:02

@JoanOfAllTrades

You are talking about Israel. I am talking about in total. That includes those in Gaza, West Bank and refugee areas.

Zebedee55 · 11/10/2023 07:07

Whoever the group, whatever the cause, there is never any excuse for targeting and killing babies and children. It's a war crime.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12616463/holocaust-Babies-beheaded-40-children-shot-dead-families-burnt-alive.html

SAM GREENHILL meets survivors of the Hamas death squads

Hamas gunmen massacred 40 children in one farm settlement alone, their small bodies lying in their rooms riddled with bullets.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12616463/holocaust-Babies-beheaded-40-children-shot-dead-families-burnt-alive.html

loislovesstewie · 11/10/2023 07:11

On another note[ and I'm not sure of it has been said] PLEASE be careful about what you click on when you access social media sites. Hamas are saying they will upload clips of exactly what they did , this may well include actual scenes of murder. Your children may access these and they are traumatic scenes.

Stylestuck · 11/10/2023 07:13

The antisemitism on here is sickening. There is no way there would be celebrations over the massacre of any other minority group. Rallies worldwide where people chant “gas the Jews” are happening and not prevented.

As a Jewish woman I have never supported Israeli politics, and I feel for the Palestinian plight. I am in no way ignorant to the number of Palestinian deaths. But Hamas are terrorists and what they have done is in no way comparable and is not justifiable with “But….”

Those of you trying to justify this are terrorist sympathisers. There are thousands of Jews in the U.K. who are utterly terrified, not only by what has happened but by how many people sympathise with Hamas.

LemonyTicket · 11/10/2023 07:19

@Stylestuck

Those of you trying to justify this are terrorist sympathisers. There are thousands of Jews in the U.K. who are utterly terrified, not only by what has happened but by how many people sympathise with Hamas

I completely know how you feel. My son messaged from university that he's had to end several friendships in the last few days due to ignorant, naive fools sympathising with Hamas and the overt highly distorted prejudice against Israel.

We are not supporters of the Israeli government or most of their actions, but the antisemitism is so evident in the bizarre double standards they are held to and the insane way people minimise the actions of these vile, depraved individuals who I frankly think have behaved worse than ISIS.

TheHouseonHauntedHill · 11/10/2023 07:21

I know this would never happen but I would like hammas to be removed. Go into gaza, get a new vote going, educate the children there, offer to help re build, offer job opportunities in isreal and offer money to improve living conditions.
Yes it's small but that doesn't mean it can't be wondeful like Hong Kong and Singapore etc.
Make it crystal clear hammas can't go on and make sure the citizens are protected to have elections. There has been no elections there since 2006.

Give hope and a future with different leaders

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/10/2023 07:22

Mmmpomello · 11/10/2023 01:02

@Pollyputhekettleon I understand what that means. I used quotes because you've basically lumping everyone who discusses the reasons or possible causes into one political group, which I find inaccurate.

Oh wow. No I didn't do that. What a strange idea. I've been discussing the causes for two days now and I'm most definitely not left wing!

Nanaof1 · 11/10/2023 07:23

Circumferences · 10/10/2023 22:37

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation.

I suggest you get familiar then.

Israel have murdered thousands of Palestinians over decades. I'm not surprised they have eventually retaliated.

Let's be honest, both sides have not behaved. There have been countless missile attacks on Israel, terrorist bombings and suicide bombers, so the Palestinians are not all innocent. Hamas hides their ammo and missiles under hospitals, schools and residential buildings and then cry victimhood when civilians are killed.

Yes, Israel has also been wrong, their treatment of the people in the West Bank make that clear and the treatment of the people in the Gaza need to be better and there needs to be a two-state system and cease fire. But Hamas, like the other terrorist organizations only want one thing, the extermination of all Jewish people and the taking back of land that was never all theirs to begin with.

And nothing excuses the atrocities that Hamas has done, beheading people, raping women, killing them and dragging their bodies naked through the street. That is beyond any and all comprehension of humankind.

Sadly, the people in the Gaza Strip elected Hamas and now they are paying the price for that decision. Hamas has been cheered and given candy/treats as they return with their spoils of war (hostages and bodies). Now Israel is fighting back and a few people call it unfair. smdh

Stylestuck · 11/10/2023 07:26

The vote here is the most terrifying part. One in five people are not disgusted by this. One in five people not disgusted by babies being beheaded in their beds, by children slaughtered in front of their families, by murders of grandparents being live streamed on Facebook. How can people live with themselves thinking that this is ok.

samupnorth · 11/10/2023 07:27

LemonyTicket · 11/10/2023 05:44

@samupnorth

Palestinians are being killed in their hundreds of thousands by the Israeli government, not by their own leaders. That’s is what is known as a fact. An uncomfortable one, but not one that can be ignored by screaming anti semitism at anyone who dares to say it loud

Under 4000 Palestinian Civilians have been killed since Hamas took power. Under 7000s including combatants / terrorists. Almost all ciivilians were not intentionally killed, but were killed as part of the ongoing war where Hamas generally use their own people as human shields.

Hamas use aid money for terrorism, deprive their own people of all their most basic needs deliberately so they can spend all the aid money and resources on terrorism or luxury villas where they hole up in resplendent palaces with full belies watching their own folk starve.

And no one can speak up, because they also arbitrarily imprison their own people without trial, force disappearances, torture and deny any access to legal process. So stop blaming "the west".

"hundreds of thousands killed and that's a fact". FGS.

Since Hamas took over . How many were killed by AIF before that ? We’ll probably never know because in the West, a Palestinian death does not get the same coverage as an Israeli death . Another fact for you.

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/10/2023 07:27

fillgap10 · 11/10/2023 01:03

No, what you said doesn't ring true, if by 'leftist' you mean anyone left of Kier Starmer. I know people who are hard hard Left and I don't know anyone who argued the terrorist attack in Manchester was justified, or the actions of the scumbags Hamas was justified.

Plenty of academics, strategists and political analysts aren't surprised the slaughter by Isreal and America on the Arab world breeds terrorism.

The treatment of Catholics by the British bred the IRA, the IRA are scumbags and no-one thought their murders were justifified, but anyone with a brain can hardly be surprised.

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Oh it doesn't 'ring true'?! Of course. A 'sounds like' arguments. Love it.

You're playing language games now naturally. Unless someone literally says 'Jihadist attacks against the west are justified' you don't consider them to be justifying it. Instead you use delightful weasel words like 'aren't surprised by', 'breeds terrorism'. And of course you appeal to the authority of 'experts'.

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/10/2023 07:32

Stylestuck · 11/10/2023 07:13

The antisemitism on here is sickening. There is no way there would be celebrations over the massacre of any other minority group. Rallies worldwide where people chant “gas the Jews” are happening and not prevented.

As a Jewish woman I have never supported Israeli politics, and I feel for the Palestinian plight. I am in no way ignorant to the number of Palestinian deaths. But Hamas are terrorists and what they have done is in no way comparable and is not justifiable with “But….”

Those of you trying to justify this are terrorist sympathisers. There are thousands of Jews in the U.K. who are utterly terrified, not only by what has happened but by how many people sympathise with Hamas.

That happens after every single jihadist attack on the west. Don't you follow social media after those? Yes 'Gas the Jews' is obvious antisemitic, but the celebrations? No that's not limited to Israel.

royalwatchewr · 11/10/2023 07:35

There is barbarism on both sides - neither side can claim any moral authority at this point.

shockeditellyou · 11/10/2023 07:36

I mean even if by some miracle Hamas agreed to a peaceful two state solution, how could we ever condemn Palestinians to living under such homophobic, misogynistic knuckle dragging mouth breathers?

Stylestuck · 11/10/2023 07:36

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/10/2023 07:32

That happens after every single jihadist attack on the west. Don't you follow social media after those? Yes 'Gas the Jews' is obvious antisemitic, but the celebrations? No that's not limited to Israel.

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Of course I have seen them. I remember the footage of celebrations after 9-11. I don’t think you understand the difference between terrorist sympathisers celebrating attacks on “the West” as a whole and rallies to celebrate the murder of a minority group. I am both a Westerner and a Jew, I can assure you that the celebrations happening now are significantly more harmful and terrifying than anything I have ever seen. You are just justifying antisemitism like the other 20% on here. Maybe just stop and think.

rumnraisinrocks · 11/10/2023 07:36

quiteoldad · 10/10/2023 23:29

Rather than shout in anger about baby killers and murderers and retribution, funnel your energy into thinking about what might be a possible solution to the conflict.

Please stop listing the atrocities carried out by your "opponent" thinking that if their abominations are worse than yours then it puts you on the higher moral ground. It doesn't.

Neither Hamas nor the state of Israel have anything to be proud of, they are both in the gutter. Think about working towards a resolution to the conflict.

The dead are now dead, that cannot be changed, try to make some suggestions, so that there isn't further, senseless killing.

Seven pages in to reading this thread and I think this is the only sensible thing I have read on this thread so far

samupnorth · 11/10/2023 07:36

royalwatchewr · 11/10/2023 07:35

There is barbarism on both sides - neither side can claim any moral authority at this point.

This.

topnoddy · 11/10/2023 07:40

Let's face it there will never be a solution to what's going on in Israel/Gaza

Both sides are as bad as each other

Blondebutnotlegally · 11/10/2023 07:43

samupnorth · 11/10/2023 07:27

Since Hamas took over . How many were killed by AIF before that ? We’ll probably never know because in the West, a Palestinian death does not get the same coverage as an Israeli death . Another fact for you.

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Social media and mainstream media has been lit up the last couple of years with "free palestine"... its the only reason many people know of this conflict.

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/10/2023 07:44

LemonyTicket · 11/10/2023 05:50

@Pollyputhekettleon

Why exactly did the Arabs think it was unfair? They must have been aware that one of the reasons the Jews wanted their own state was because they had lived as second class citizen under dhimmitude for centuries, under Arab rule. I've asked several people now whether there was ever any apology forthcoming to the Jews for that. Would giving them their state not have been the obvious way to guarantee them they would never again be subjected to dhimmitude and to apologize for it?

Dhimmitude is normal among many cultures. The idea of equality is a very western one. Even today, in most Muslim countries the testimony of a woman is worth less than a mans. The rights of an Indian or Bangladeshi immigrant would be non existent, whereas a local would be treated in every way as superior. This is the normal way, so no, they would not apologise.

And was there not a view among the muslim Arabs that because the land had been conquered by Islam, it was Islamic land and therefore former dhimmis could not possibly be allowed to rule any part of it? How could they not have held such a view, in light of the apparent lack of any serious remorse for the dhimmi system?

There were struggles amongst Arabs in the area. There was a lack of food, there was a lot of problems, a lot of fighting. The British were not managing things well. About 30% of Palestinian Arabs had no land (which meant no food really). They were very disgruntled and there was ongoing violence. They felt the land was theirs. they expected fully (and no doubt were led to believe) that when the Brits left they would be handed power. The idea of sharing with anyone, much less Jews who they despised in the way Nigel Farage despises people on small boats was absolutely abhorrent.

Thank you. I read the Peel Commission report now and it's fascinating.

About the partition it proposed it says:

'Partition means that neither will get all it wants. It means that the Arabs must acquiesce in the exclusion from their sovereignty of a piece of territory, long occupied and once ruled by them. It means that the Jews must be content with less than the Land of Israel they once ruled and have hoped to rule again.'

Seems absolutely fair. Yet the Arabs refused it.

Here it is for anyone who wants to see it:

Text of the Peel Commission Report (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

Text of the Peel Commission Report

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/text-of-the-peel-commission-report

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/10/2023 07:46

Stylestuck · 11/10/2023 07:36

Of course I have seen them. I remember the footage of celebrations after 9-11. I don’t think you understand the difference between terrorist sympathisers celebrating attacks on “the West” as a whole and rallies to celebrate the murder of a minority group. I am both a Westerner and a Jew, I can assure you that the celebrations happening now are significantly more harmful and terrifying than anything I have ever seen. You are just justifying antisemitism like the other 20% on here. Maybe just stop and think.

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Name-calling has no effect on me. Westerners are actually a global minority, if you want to play that game. But I don't. I don't care who's a majority and who's a minority. My point, obviously enough, was that the fact that people celebrate these attacks against Jews is not, in itself, evidence of antisemitism. It's exactly what you'd expect from jihadist sympathizers because as you know they don't limit their terrorism to Jews.

JethroTullandhishorse · 11/10/2023 07:48

I think the answer lies somewhere between the two poles.
Yes, Hamas’ actions are wholly unjustifiable (understatement).
Yes, some of Israel’s actions hitherto have been wholly unjustifiable (understatement).

One doesn’t justify the other.

There is no straightforward answer, other than Hamas are wrong for this, and Israel are also wrong for doing what they’ve done.

LuisVitton · 11/10/2023 07:48

Which Arabs refused it.

Not the Palestinians that have to live with it.

Possibly outraged Egyptians/Jordanians etc etc etc

StowOnTheWold · 11/10/2023 07:49

Coffeerum · 10/10/2023 22:30

@Catusrusty There is so much antisemitism dressed up in whataboutery on these threads about Israel.

Can you give an example of this? The only thing I’ve seen that is controversial to some is pointing out Israel’s actions and treatment of Gaza and Palestinian’s, which is not an antisemitic comment.

Two if not three complete threads deleted.

Zonder · 11/10/2023 07:49

MindfullyAmazedHorse · 10/10/2023 22:40

The Palestinians have not retaliated in this instance - it is an attack by Hamas terrorise who do not give two figs about Palestinian civilians?

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This is what gets me. Hamas have done something evil. The Palestinians haven't. And yet now there have been more than a thousand Israeli attacks on Palestinians in the last couple of days.