To be sickened by Hamas

[MindfullyAmazedHorse]

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens?

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days.

It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them.

I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying.

I am struggling to process these recent events.

@BigBillyButterBollocks agree, migrants on boats are highly unlikely to be anything to do with Hamas or terrorism.

There's is a huge threat to British Jews though. The threat was real before this weekend, now it's going to be sky high.

Hamas may not come here directly, but Jews around the world will suffer as a result of this. You can already see the number of posters who's first response is to blame Israeli's. This then becomes blame Jews. Which leads to anti-semitic attacks ☹️

YES.

@Mmmpomello there is a time and place. When thousands of innocent people, families, are being killed on both sides, this isn't the time.

Where were you all last week or the week before that?

Hamas attack and you think now is the best time to discuss an almost century long discussion (and prior of course).

This isn't the time. Yes it's emotive, real people are being slaughtered.

47% of Gazans are children, who can’t vote for anyone.

Tell me why does Israel thinks collective punishing Palestinians for hamas' actions is a good idea when same has happened in the past with Jews themselves? Why are we allowing history to repeat itself? Has no one learnt anything? 50/100 years later Palestine genocide will be in history books and people will be disgusted with Israel's supporters.

Someone shared this in a WhatsApp group I’m in and I thought the gentleman being interviewed made some very good points: https://x.com/davidrkadler/status/1711103806002377167?s=20

Muslims went through the worst time of their lives when 9/11 happened. Chinese went through the worst times when covid happened. But I don't see neither gagging other people to speak truth.
You should question the wrong ones rather than silencing the facts.

I don't see many Jewish communities condemning the Palestinian occupation.

Completely and utterly disagree. Now is absolutely the time to discuss the reasons behind the killing of innocent people. Many of those reasons are in history and politics and the triggers behind actions.

Understanding, learning, and action leads to change. Uneducated rage and bias leads to hatred, division and inaction.

Compassion from afar and simply discussing how bad we feel might make us feel better in ourselves but it does absolutely nothing for those affected.

Quite a few are. These are the more progressive ones who are appalled at how right wing Israel has become.

No you're right the conflict didn't start with Hamas, it started from the word go when Palestine / The Arab League rejected the original division of land and started a war over it, which they subsequently lost.

But the rights and wrongs of the past can't be changed, only the future and that can't happen as long as Hamas, their supporters, and their brand of extremism exists in the region.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation committed to the obliteration of Israel and the elimination of Jews and have repeatedly said they will never entertain peace.

More than that they are the leaders of Gaza. People like to draw a clear line between Palestinians and Hamas, forgetting that Hamas were elected into government by the Palestinian population of Gaza. Yes, Hamas immediately withdrew the right to hold elections once in power (who could have seen that coming? 🙄) but, they still enjoy widespread support of the general Palestinian population.

While Hamas remain, and while their supporters continue to adhere to their ideology, which demands that ever single inch of that region must be under Islamic control, there will not be peace.

Those wedded to that ideology see it as an affront to their God that an infidel, even worse a filthy Jew, rules over part their holy land, and will never stop fighting for its return to their complete control.

Either Palestinians have to show they're willing to change the narrative, or the ideology that drives them has to be defeated. The only other alternative is the eradication of Israel, which no doubt would be the preference for many on here.

British Jewish communities?

IfNotNow, a progressive Jewish organization in the U.S. condemned the killing of civilians, but pointed to the Israeli government's actions—suggesting that they had provoked the violent response from Hamas.
"We watch the unfolding horrors with heartbreak and dread for our loved ones – Israelis and Palestinians alike," IfNotNow said in a statement emailed to Newsweek.
"We cannot and will not say today's actions by Palestinian militants are unprovoked. Every day under Israel's system of apartheid is a provocation. The strangling siege on Gaza is a provocation," the organization said. "Settlers terrorizing entire Palestinian villages, soldiers raiding and demolishing Palestinian homes, murdering Palestinians in the streets, Israeli ministers calling for genocide and expulsion. These are the provocations of the most extremist right wing government in Israel's history and an emboldened fascist movement escalating this crisis across the land."

Progressive organization Jewish Voice for Peace shared a similar view in a statement forwarded to Newsweek.
"Right now, Palestinians, Israelis and all of us with family on the ground are terrified for loved ones. We grieve the lives of those already lost and remain committed to a future where every life is precious, and all people live in freedom and safety," the group said on Saturday.
Continuing, Jewish Voice for Peace said that Israel's "war on Palestinians started over 75 years ago. Israeli apartheid and occupation—and United States complicity in that oppression—are the source of all this violence. Reality is shaped by when you start the clock."

https://www.newsweek.com/ilhan-omar-reacts-hamas-assault-israel-1832893

Hamas is the only evil here. People in a prison have voted for Hamas I wonder why??

Why are Jewish settlers evicting Palestinians from their homes till today? Why are Palestinians forced leave their homes?

"The settlers and Israeli army has evicted 20 Palestinian communities (breaking international laws) killing 248 people, including 40 children".

That's why anyone defending Israel ("they don't attack Palestinians children or civilians, they just bomb Hamas and kill them by accident") is committing hate speech, really. And yes, Palestinian children have been burned alive during these attacks.

So there you go, when you wonder why people talk about two sides. Blame Hamas, but Blame Israel too. Not for what happened a few days ago. For what. they did in the last few years.

"Learn your lesson Jews"!!

The same people that disguise their antisemitism by claiming 'actually it's anti-zionism, don't you know not all zionists are Jews' will then quite happily turn round and blame it on the Jews after all.

Threemangoes · Today 01:46

I don't see many Jewish communities condemning the Palestinian occupation.

Well yes they are (and have been for a long time now), but you just don't want to see it because then you can't play your whataboutism.

This is one of the worst threads I've seen this week (and it's been a crowded playing field).

Perfect response to hide under the umbrella of 'you are an anti semite' and not answer me why they are repeating history by unleashing the wrath on another nation?

History of British Jewish criticism of Israeli governments.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/all/a-watershed-moment-in-how-british-jews-came-to-view-israel-2BrkmjOTPbi4aFVtiQJ4nQ

A 2015 poll:

“More than two-thirds of British Jews have a “sense of despair” every time an expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem is approved, and three-quarters think that Israel’s approach to making peace with the Palestinians is damaging its standing in the world, according to a new poll.
It found 90% support Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, but the poll also found mass discomfort with the policies of the Israeli government. More than half (58%) said Israel “will be seen as an apartheid state if it tries to retain control over borders that contain more Arabs than Jews” – in effect, if it continues its 47-year occupation of the Palestinian territories.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/12/poll-of-british-jews-finds-widespread-unease-with-israels-policies

Haven’t found anything official yet about this current conflict.

What do you think freeing Palestine would achieve exactly?

You know that in a free Palestine Israel would be under absolutely no obligation to help them in anyway right? No one could force Israel to supply food, water, energy, medicine, etc to a free Palestine and no one could force them to allow Palestinians entry to Israel either.

Literally the only thing that would change in Gaza is the sea blockade, and even that wouldn't be a given as long as Hamas were about, as who in their right mind would allow a terrorist organisation unrestricted access to the sea?

The plight of Palestinians in Gaza is primarily because their leaders do not care a jot about the general population and are only interested in waging bloody jihad against the 'infidel usrupers'.

I'm wondering if I even understand your question.

Are you actually asking if if's acceptable to disapprove of a sneak attack that involves slaughtering and abducting innocent civilians?

@Thebestwaytoscareatory Totally agree.

In my brief education on the background to this conflict, it seems that this all started with Arab aggression to Israel wanting to create a Jewish state on land that was their ancestral home or holy land. Land was purchased from the Ottomans? Due to the Arab aggression (6 day war anyone?) Israel has had to constantly fight back and protect itself since it’s inception. Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of Jordan.

Gaza was then given independence to the Palestinians who then elected a terrorist government almost immediately who’s mandate was to wipe Israel from the map so Israel cut them off from entering. Is this the open air prison people keep referring to? Simple solution if you can’t be trusted not to kill your neighbours - stop. Even Egypt, their former rulers, doesn’t seem want anything to do with them. Gaza has been handed billions in aid (including from Israel) but have done little in the way of infrastructure with that money - water salination plants? and still depended on Israel for food, water and medical care. Where has it all gone? They managed to purchase arms and rockets though.

They have used child suicide bombers to blow up Israelis (I can imagine the Israelis are on constant alert for this so mistakes can happen) and deliberately place their military units and weapons in civilian areas, schools and hospitals so they can they can say Israel murdered civilians when they try to destroy weaponry being used against them, and have refused peace deals.

Israel must be the only country in the world that has had to create an iron dome specifically to repel repeated rocket attacks.

I’m sure if Gaza wanted rid of Hamas and to live in peace alongside Israel, they would have had a lot of help to do so, including from Israel! They’ve had 17 years to ask for help.

I don’t blame Israel for having had enough quite frankly. The savagery and scale of the recent attacks are unprecedented and right out of an ISIS playbook. If the Palestinian people didn’t want these atrocities to happen in their name, they wouldn’t have been celebrating in the street with kids toting machine guns?

From the videos I’ve seen, they believe their dead are martyrs and this is something to aspire to. There is no reasoning with that kind of ideology as there’s no want to preserve human life which is normally what stops us trying to kill each other and the killing will never end.

So rather then focusing on a solution that will work for Palestine continue stealing from them killing them and torturing them because their leaders are terrorists just like Israel is a terrorist nation.

Free Palestine from the terror of Israel is more appropriate then. What do you think??

There are plenty of videos showing zionists who revel at the thought of wiping Palestinians off the face if earth. Let's not go there.

Tell me why are Jewish settlers stealing land and homes of Palestinians in 2023???????????????

Tell me why has Palestine been wiped off the map of the world by Israel?????????????

Must be the fault of scummy Arabs themselves.

No, hamas are just the biggest barrier to peace. Israel has previously shown it is willing to negotiate and could likely be convinced to do so again.

Hamas have categorically stated they will never entertain peace with Israel.

You, and others keep saying Palestinians are living in a prison but seem to be completely blind as to why that would be the case. It should be beyond obvious that Israel isn't going to want people who are committed to their destruction freely entering their country. But the fact that Egypt also don't want them to be able to freely enter their country should tell you this isn't an Israel problem.

As to why are Palestinians forced to leave their homes, well again, that should be fairly obvious. They're involved in an ongoing armed conflict. Do you think that when Balklands where tearing themselves apart families in disputed areas got to keep their homes? Of course not, to the victor go the spoils.

War results in land changing hands and people being displaced. Palestinians can continue fighting a losing fight or they can reopen peace talks. That's pretty much the only two options open to them as they're almost certainly never going to achieve their other aim of remove Israel from the map.