(THREAD 2) To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[Poudretteite]

Not OP just created another thread as the first one was full

All I know is that it’s a horrific situation and I’m not taking sides. My heart is breaking for all the innocent people on both sides that now have to suffer. It’s heartbreaking and unfortunately, I fear it will get worse :(

On previous threads, people have pointed out that Israel has in the past warned people when they were going to bomb somewhere.

It was mentioned by someone on Radio 4 today that this was no longer happening - which given the amount of bombing and missile activity, you can see why. There is a lot of bombing and artillery going on.

I don't know if anyone has any up to date information if this is still happening?

And what has the United Nations done about it?

Exactly. The UN's punitive measures are so insignificant States can ignore them.

Personally, I think the international community is gradually moving back to its earlier view that conquest is not illegal under International Law.

I don't know, but C4 news has just suggested Israel is using white phosphorous. The footage of bleeding babies and children in Gaza is terrible. We must all call for a ceasefire, we should not just watch.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyQm8TRotim/?igshid=MmU2YjMzNjRlOQ==

You will probably ignore this

A Palestinian explains Hamas:

Just to give people an indication of the misrepresentations, lies and pro-Hamas content some accounts are posting on Mumsnet.

This morning a user called UhohFibonacci posted this YouTube video clip from the Middle East Eye in a thread called "To Be Sickened By Hamas" in AIBU:

https://youtube.com/shorts/vrRe97wGFHA?si=N2FZT15bAD444UGb

They claimed this showed Palestinians protecting the woman and child in the video. But when you click on the link, the title states they're "Palestinian fighters".

When I challenged UhohFibonacci on why they left that detail out, they tried to claim the men in the video were Palestinian civilians not associated with Hamas who were protecting them.

Furthermore, they boasted I'll never be able to definitively prove the men in the clip were Hamas members.

Funnily enough, it has now been proven those men ARE Hamas terrorists and the woman in the clip is Shiri Silberman-Bibas and her children. They're hostages and definitely not being protected.

www.nbcnews.com/video/video-shows-hamas-gunmen-kidnap-shiri-silberman-bibas-and-her-children-194724933949

Always, Always be prepared to critically interrogate whatever anyone says or the videos they post.

Try NOT to be led by your emotions as propaganda is designed to work on you that way.

There's been concerted disinformation on both sides from the word go, DownNative.

@DownNative

Good post - there really does seem to be a lot of new MN accounts posting on this topic

@DownNative where in that video does it show them being mistreated? Have you seen the video showing translation and they are saying to her that they will not hurt them?

Strawman Argument as I said they ARE Hamas terrorists who are taking them hostage. Disingenuous for anyone to claim otherwise!

Hamas are using them along with 100 other hostages as human shields. I've no doubt Hamas will have already mistreated them in various ways which they've form for.

I repeat, Hamas are NOT protecting them in the video. Elsewhere I've explained terrorist propaganda of themselves as being "defenders" for multiple reasons and audiences. It is not what you think.

And, yes, I've seen that video. It's from Middle East Eye. Likewise I said, it's Hamas propaganda.

He is right wing and wants dominance. During the departure from Gaza in 2005, he was a very loud opponent to it. He said he Israel had to keep the territories occupied and under military control as a security buffer to the outside world. He felt them being Palestinian was a security risk. So it was clear what his priorities are. He is not interested, I do not think, in peaceful resolutions so much as defending Israel at all costs.

Sharon said at the time that it was the right thing to do to leave Gaza, and being in Gaza was oppressing the Palestinians. He was right of course. So it's not like all Israeli people share Netenyahu's ideas - he is a right wing man. Just like here you will have people who agree with Suella Braverman putting people on planes to Rwanda while everyone else thinks it's horrific.

Hopefully he goes in the next election.

Can I ask something which I have not seen any answer to on the many discussions I have read? Jordan is Israel's much larger neighbour to the east and has a very long border with them, presumably not completely defended by Israel. What is their stance/role? Do they have any diplomatic influence/military intent which would have effects one way or another and how or when would they use them? Who are their main friends/allies?

The queen of Jordan is Palestinian.

emilysquest

I've just googled that Israel and Jordan signed a peace treaty in 1994.
The King of Jordan has spoken publicly a day ago and said in his opinion the answer is the two state solution (Reuters), which has been offered 5 times before and every time rejected by the Arab side (but accepted by Israel).

Hamas exists to destroy Israel entirely. They don't believe Israel has à right to exist.

That also means, of course, that no peace is possible while Hamas exists.

Is there anything else the Jordanians can do? I know very little about them but from what you say the king sounds reasonable (by the standards of the region).

Are you actaully joking?? Have you seen what Hamas have done?? Yet they won't mistreat hostages? Ok then.

Well, Palestinian militants did try to assassinate the king’s father twice and take control of Jordan to use as a military base to use against Israel, so there’s just a little bit of ill-feeling there…

@Lunatone that is interesting, I didn't know that. I also remember that Jordanian pilot who was burned alive by Isis (who, I presume, have common ground with Hamas, I am not sure how they are related to each other, but I have seen many comments in recent days that "Hamas is Isis"). The Jordanian king must be in a very difficult position.

I guess that that Jordan's position illustrates how very difficult and complex this all is. They are Arabs and Muslims, and their queen is Palestinian, so presumably they have plenty of sympathy for the Palestinian people. Yet they have been targeted by Palestinian militants and Isis so presumably they have little sympathy for the militant jihadi groups. Does anyone know what the Jordanian man or woman on the street would be thinking about it all now? Given that they have a long border with a country now at war.

I see that the Jordanian king is right now meeting Blinken. I hope something helps this terrible situation.

It is interesting to me that the king of Jordan (about whom I knew practically nothing until now) is wearing a business suit to meet Blinken, not traditional Arab attire.

why is that interesting?@emilysquest
He mostly wears suits unless it is an Arab event and even then he'll put a head a keffiyeh on his head

@emilysquest Unless I am missing something- he nearly always wears a suit