Page 30 | Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

Lieblingsessen · 2023-10-09T18:19:49+00:00

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval. Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 14:38

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 14:31

Or... the UN can see Israel is in the wrong here.

But anyone who speaks up against the government actions is antisemitic, tehy're lying. They are just against Israel.

Should the Muslim nations of UN not have a vote on that one and see what the others think? (It will be the same. NO ONE is going to publicly associate themselves with the atrocities happening right now in Gaza and those everybody knows are about to happen. No one. )

Edited

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OR that Islam has been a very 'successful' religion in spreading to many countries

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 14:39

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 14:38

OR that Islam has been a very 'successful' religion in spreading to many countries

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Yeah, that deep seeded love of Islam in Western countries... 🙄

JFC, give me the strenght...

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 14:42

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 14:39

Yeah, that deep seeded love of Islam in Western countries... 🙄

JFC, give me the strenght...

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Huh? Explains why so many seats at the UN are taken by Muslim majority countries

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 14:45

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 14:42

Huh? Explains why so many seats at the UN are taken by Muslim majority countries

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Why wouldn't they have a seat at the UN?

HoldOnMiGenna · 10/10/2023 14:46

All the gnashing of teeth on behalf of justifying Hamas is for nought.
Trying to shame those who are Israeli / Jewish/ allies as to the supposition that most people are Pro Palestine/ anti Israel will not work.
Has there ever been a time in creation when the majority of the world's people wanted to walk Jewish people in nature and without finger pointing after them?
They ain't new to this. They are true to this. That is why they will always be. The Catholics tried. The Islamic imperialists stay trying. Same with the Arabs. The non Catholic Christians play two face. Macho Black Nationalists whip up hatred.
Are people so naive as to the will of Jewish permanence in this world, especially after 1945 and after millennia of turning the other cheek, being stuffed into and thriving in the ghettoes named for them and surviving so many genocides from antiquity to now?
The naivite on this thread is mind boggling.
Israel will remain. The alternative will not be allowed to happen in the name of world existence, much less peace.
There is a reason why Israel will never swap having the handle with holding the blade. Jewish people been there done that and it took the Holocaust for them to realise where they stand. And their homeland being surrounded by haters gives them no space for sitting down and smelling the roses.
Even if Palestine was free, something like this would happen.
Attempted or realised genocide is not new to Jewish people, pre or post Holocaust.
So the low vibrational disingenuous reasoning as to what Israel should do is very laughable in the most mirthlrss way.
I swear that Palestinians are cursed with the most dim/ infantile supporters who don't even realise their own country's history or present vis a vis Jewish people.
Anything Jewish people have didn't just fall from their arse by means of squatting.
A lot of the hatred is that no matter what corner of shub that they are pushed into, they still overcome.
I've long been at the stage of just saying " chapeau!".
No gaslighting will work on them. Ain't that a Mumsnet cri de coeur?

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 14:51

HoldOnMiGenna · 10/10/2023 14:46

All the gnashing of teeth on behalf of justifying Hamas is for nought.
Trying to shame those who are Israeli / Jewish/ allies as to the supposition that most people are Pro Palestine/ anti Israel will not work.
Has there ever been a time in creation when the majority of the world's people wanted to walk Jewish people in nature and without finger pointing after them?
They ain't new to this. They are true to this. That is why they will always be. The Catholics tried. The Islamic imperialists stay trying. Same with the Arabs. The non Catholic Christians play two face. Macho Black Nationalists whip up hatred.
Are people so naive as to the will of Jewish permanence in this world, especially after 1945 and after millennia of turning the other cheek, being stuffed into and thriving in the ghettoes named for them and surviving so many genocides from antiquity to now?
The naivite on this thread is mind boggling.
Israel will remain. The alternative will not be allowed to happen in the name of world existence, much less peace.
There is a reason why Israel will never swap having the handle with holding the blade. Jewish people been there done that and it took the Holocaust for them to realise where they stand. And their homeland being surrounded by haters gives them no space for sitting down and smelling the roses.
Even if Palestine was free, something like this would happen.
Attempted or realised genocide is not new to Jewish people, pre or post Holocaust.
So the low vibrational disingenuous reasoning as to what Israel should do is very laughable in the most mirthlrss way.
I swear that Palestinians are cursed with the most dim/ infantile supporters who don't even realise their own country's history or present vis a vis Jewish people.
Anything Jewish people have didn't just fall from their arse by means of squatting.
A lot of the hatred is that no matter what corner of shub that they are pushed into, they still overcome.
I've long been at the stage of just saying " chapeau!".
No gaslighting will work on them. Ain't that a Mumsnet cri de coeur?

That conveniently ignores the apartheid and war crimes (which is what most people have a problem with) but OK...

ginandtonicwithlimes · 10/10/2023 14:52

HoldOnMiGenna · 10/10/2023 14:46

All the gnashing of teeth on behalf of justifying Hamas is for nought.
Trying to shame those who are Israeli / Jewish/ allies as to the supposition that most people are Pro Palestine/ anti Israel will not work.
Has there ever been a time in creation when the majority of the world's people wanted to walk Jewish people in nature and without finger pointing after them?
They ain't new to this. They are true to this. That is why they will always be. The Catholics tried. The Islamic imperialists stay trying. Same with the Arabs. The non Catholic Christians play two face. Macho Black Nationalists whip up hatred.
Are people so naive as to the will of Jewish permanence in this world, especially after 1945 and after millennia of turning the other cheek, being stuffed into and thriving in the ghettoes named for them and surviving so many genocides from antiquity to now?
The naivite on this thread is mind boggling.
Israel will remain. The alternative will not be allowed to happen in the name of world existence, much less peace.
There is a reason why Israel will never swap having the handle with holding the blade. Jewish people been there done that and it took the Holocaust for them to realise where they stand. And their homeland being surrounded by haters gives them no space for sitting down and smelling the roses.
Even if Palestine was free, something like this would happen.
Attempted or realised genocide is not new to Jewish people, pre or post Holocaust.
So the low vibrational disingenuous reasoning as to what Israel should do is very laughable in the most mirthlrss way.
I swear that Palestinians are cursed with the most dim/ infantile supporters who don't even realise their own country's history or present vis a vis Jewish people.
Anything Jewish people have didn't just fall from their arse by means of squatting.
A lot of the hatred is that no matter what corner of shub that they are pushed into, they still overcome.
I've long been at the stage of just saying " chapeau!".
No gaslighting will work on them. Ain't that a Mumsnet cri de coeur?

I have always wondered why, after all the suffering the Jews have had since time immemorial, that the nation of Israel insists on basically treating the Palestinians in the same way?

AUserNameIsNot · 10/10/2023 15:26

ginandtonicwithlimes · 10/10/2023 14:52

I have always wondered why, after all the suffering the Jews have had since time immemorial, that the nation of Israel insists on basically treating the Palestinians in the same way?

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We're not sending Palestinians to bespoke factories set up for mass slaughter. We're not filling up pits. Really not comparable.

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 15:29

@TokyoSushi Hamas currently attacking Ashkelon with rocket fire

Glitterdavies · 10/10/2023 15:50

https://x.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711745549215367377?s=20

VisaWoes · 10/10/2023 15:50

AUserNameIsNot · 10/10/2023 15:26

We're not sending Palestinians to bespoke factories set up for mass slaughter. We're not filling up pits. Really not comparable.

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No, it’s more like the Warsaw ghetto.

StowOnTheWold · 10/10/2023 15:59

HoldOnMiGenna · 10/10/2023 14:46

All the gnashing of teeth on behalf of justifying Hamas is for nought.
Trying to shame those who are Israeli / Jewish/ allies as to the supposition that most people are Pro Palestine/ anti Israel will not work.
Has there ever been a time in creation when the majority of the world's people wanted to walk Jewish people in nature and without finger pointing after them?
They ain't new to this. They are true to this. That is why they will always be. The Catholics tried. The Islamic imperialists stay trying. Same with the Arabs. The non Catholic Christians play two face. Macho Black Nationalists whip up hatred.
Are people so naive as to the will of Jewish permanence in this world, especially after 1945 and after millennia of turning the other cheek, being stuffed into and thriving in the ghettoes named for them and surviving so many genocides from antiquity to now?
The naivite on this thread is mind boggling.
Israel will remain. The alternative will not be allowed to happen in the name of world existence, much less peace.
There is a reason why Israel will never swap having the handle with holding the blade. Jewish people been there done that and it took the Holocaust for them to realise where they stand. And their homeland being surrounded by haters gives them no space for sitting down and smelling the roses.
Even if Palestine was free, something like this would happen.
Attempted or realised genocide is not new to Jewish people, pre or post Holocaust.
So the low vibrational disingenuous reasoning as to what Israel should do is very laughable in the most mirthlrss way.
I swear that Palestinians are cursed with the most dim/ infantile supporters who don't even realise their own country's history or present vis a vis Jewish people.
Anything Jewish people have didn't just fall from their arse by means of squatting.
A lot of the hatred is that no matter what corner of shub that they are pushed into, they still overcome.
I've long been at the stage of just saying " chapeau!".
No gaslighting will work on them. Ain't that a Mumsnet cri de coeur?

Very well put. If a person doesn’t understand this they can’t really comment on Israel.

There is always some organisation in the world that every day wants to eradicate Israel and wipe the Jews off the face of the earth. It’s never going to happen.

It’s like watching a child trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Give up, it’s never going to fit.

Israel is here to stay and it’s Hamas and the Iranian regime that will get hammered. If a new regime pops up it will get hammered too. This is not a temporary state, this is what the State of Israel does and will continue to do. It’s ingrained through necessity.

AUserNameIsNot · 10/10/2023 16:01

Where do you think the residents of the Warsaw ghetto were sent? Do you have any inkling of how few of them survived?

VisaWoes · 10/10/2023 16:05

Do you have any inkling of how few of them survived?

that’s my point. How many people do you think are likely to survive in Gaza?

royalwatchewr · 10/10/2023 16:06

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 14:42

Huh? Explains why so many seats at the UN are taken by Muslim majority countries

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And how many are Christian countries? That hasn't prevented opposition to Russia

VisaWoes · 10/10/2023 16:06

Where do you think the residents of the Warsaw ghetto were sent?

about 92,000 starved to death in the ghetto.

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 16:08

royalwatchewr · 10/10/2023 16:06

And how many are Christian countries? That hasn't prevented opposition to Russia

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You need to read the nested quotes

Haffiana · 10/10/2023 16:09

Just watching the news footage of the Israeli settlement of Kfar Aza near the border with Gaza. Scores of people were burned alive in their homes. Over 200 dead, they are still collecting and identifying the bodies. 40 babies have been found killed in Kfar Aza, many of them with their heads cut off.

There is no coming back from this for Gaza.

SequentialAnalyst · 10/10/2023 16:10

It's war.
Down through the ages, people have had to live through war.
Their families killed before their eyes.
Mothers having to explain to their daughters how to behave so that they have the best chance of surviving rape.
Mothers having their sons go off to war, in a time when the fastest communication was by pony. No news, only rumours.
And if they survive, mothers begging their younger sons not to avenge their fathers and brothers.
Although I can understand why some of the mothers might urge their sons to exact vengeance, instead

royalwatchewr · 10/10/2023 16:12

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 16:08

You need to read the nested quotes

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I have read them.

Are you implying that Muslim countries are somehow less capable of participating in UN debates than Christian ones? What is your point?

SovietSpy · 10/10/2023 16:20

Haffiana · 10/10/2023 16:09

Just watching the news footage of the Israeli settlement of Kfar Aza near the border with Gaza. Scores of people were burned alive in their homes. Over 200 dead, they are still collecting and identifying the bodies. 40 babies have been found killed in Kfar Aza, many of them with their heads cut off.

There is no coming back from this for Gaza.

truly abhorrent.

yet we will see defence or minimising of these atrocities. on here and on the streets of western countries.

EasternStandard · 10/10/2023 16:21

@Haffiana utterly brutal

A hard read and that’s just the words

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 16:23

AUserNameIsNot · 10/10/2023 16:01

Where do you think the residents of the Warsaw ghetto were sent? Do you have any inkling of how few of them survived?

Yeah, we know. It was an unspeakable shame. Then we said never again...

AbraKedavra · 10/10/2023 16:30

VisaWoes · 10/10/2023 08:51

And this is the issue, colonial Britain comes along and offers the land to people when really wtf what Britain doing there? What gave Britain the right to decide who gets what?

I believe the Palestine people were unhappy with the proposal because they were the majority inhabitant population but were offered a much smaller percentage of land.

So if 80% of the population gets offered 20% of the land they’re not going to be happy. (percentages may not be accurate)

so why was a fairer share not proposed?

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Judea - to give it its original name - was a Jewish sovereign kingdom. One that lasted for circa 1200 years.

Almost 2000 years ago it was colonised by the Romans, and since then it was always a colony of some foreign state. It never became sovereign.

Over the years, Arabs from various tribes moved into the area and made it their home. But it was never made into a sovereign Arab country. Amd Jews (aka Judeans) always had a presence in the land, and even diasporic Jews never ever stopped hoping and talking of returning.

What happened in 1948 was the land got decolonised. Not colonised, but decolonised.

Any talk about land being stolen is a willful distortion and conflation of private property vs government. I'm a British citizen. If I don't like the government, it doesn't equate to me losing my home. It's still my home, only governed by X party instead of Y.

Likewise with Israel. Arabs who'd been living for generations under different colonisers, suddenly found themselves living under a Jewish government. That's not an occupation or invasion. It's just being a sovereign citizen as opposed to part of a colony.

What happened immediately afterwards was an attempted invasion and annihilation by the Arab Legion. Which didn't quite go as planned for them.

Worddance · 10/10/2023 16:35

HoldOnMiGenna · 10/10/2023 14:46

All the gnashing of teeth on behalf of justifying Hamas is for nought.
Trying to shame those who are Israeli / Jewish/ allies as to the supposition that most people are Pro Palestine/ anti Israel will not work.
Has there ever been a time in creation when the majority of the world's people wanted to walk Jewish people in nature and without finger pointing after them?
They ain't new to this. They are true to this. That is why they will always be. The Catholics tried. The Islamic imperialists stay trying. Same with the Arabs. The non Catholic Christians play two face. Macho Black Nationalists whip up hatred.
Are people so naive as to the will of Jewish permanence in this world, especially after 1945 and after millennia of turning the other cheek, being stuffed into and thriving in the ghettoes named for them and surviving so many genocides from antiquity to now?
The naivite on this thread is mind boggling.
Israel will remain. The alternative will not be allowed to happen in the name of world existence, much less peace.
There is a reason why Israel will never swap having the handle with holding the blade. Jewish people been there done that and it took the Holocaust for them to realise where they stand. And their homeland being surrounded by haters gives them no space for sitting down and smelling the roses.
Even if Palestine was free, something like this would happen.
Attempted or realised genocide is not new to Jewish people, pre or post Holocaust.
So the low vibrational disingenuous reasoning as to what Israel should do is very laughable in the most mirthlrss way.
I swear that Palestinians are cursed with the most dim/ infantile supporters who don't even realise their own country's history or present vis a vis Jewish people.
Anything Jewish people have didn't just fall from their arse by means of squatting.
A lot of the hatred is that no matter what corner of shub that they are pushed into, they still overcome.
I've long been at the stage of just saying " chapeau!".
No gaslighting will work on them. Ain't that a Mumsnet cri de coeur?

Ridiculous nonsense.

Hamas is a terrorist group that thrives because Palestinians are suffering oppression (that always gives terror a foothold) and Iran doesn't want Saudi Arabia to have the opportunity to be on good terms with Israel due to what this would mean for US influence. Take away the threat of US dominance and address the issue of human rights in Gaza and you'd find no one had it in for Israel currently more than anywhere else.