Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

[Lieblingsessen]

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology

But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

Similarly, defeating PIRA didn't lead to a cycle of large scale terrorism in Northern Ireland.

I've also explained how PIRA weren't interested in political settlements such as Sunningdale and Anglo-Irish Agreement with them accepting the Belfast Agreement once ideologically defeated. Funny thing is, the Belfast Agreement had very similar provisions in it to the earlier ones. Yet PIRA always argued no Republican or Nationalist could accept them!

You're correct terrorist groups cannot be reasoned with or negotiated with until they are ideologically destroyed.

Ideology is the oxygen for all terrorist groups globally.

I am glad the UN have declared the siege illegal. It very much seems the right decision. I can still think that and totally condemn the hamas attacks on Israel. I just really hope that somehow Hamas might be overthrown and maybe talks could start.

It's true that in ben Gurion's diary in 1948 he admits that Jewish soldiers raped refugees from Ramla and Lydda, and it's not something we should be blase about.

It isn't either inevitable or acceptable.

A decisive ground battle like the one the UK and a coalition of allied nations fought against Daesh in Mosul.

There's no doubting the military capability of Hamas now. They took out tanks, army bases, soldiers and billion dollar walls.

Ignoring the problem hasn't made it go away.

"If my children had been killed by Israli soldiers, and my house stolen, I would want every israeli citizen chased and killed".

"Why don't Israeli mive out of Israel so Hamas can kill all the military targets they want"

Do you see how horrendous that is? There is a social media campaign to justify what is happening to Palestinians and normalize the externination of the people of Gaza that is happening now. We see you. Fuck you. Crimes against humanity are crimes against humanity.

That attack that Israel absolutely "didn't see coming" and was unable to stop for hours and hours (sometimes not showing up for 6 hours) even though they trained the whole country and equipped themselves to the teeth turns out to be convenient i the end!

Let's have a thought for all the children whose parents have been chased out of Palestine to an open air prison where they live in medieval conditions without any hope or right. They are now living in pure hell, dyibv by the hundreds. While world leaders are encouraging it. After being silent to their plight for decades. And people are too scared to denounce what is happening.

I am ashamed of humanity. Absolutely disgusted (and before someone feels the need to ask, the attack against Israeli civilians disgusts me too)

Apologi-ze for existing and accept to be quietly annihilated (as a nation and as people). That is what is expected of those poor souls.

The same reason that multiple posters in this thread continue to state that a country that has two borders with two different countries can be ‘under siege /blockade’ by just one. Whilst they pretend this is the case, they can continue with the anti-semitism unchallenged. Not one of the pro-Palestinian posters has yet directly answered the question why haven’t Gaza’s Arabic /Islamic neighbours ever fully opened their boarder with them? And even more so now in these desperate times, Egypt still won’t fully open their border? Wonder why that is? Somehow that will be the Israelis fault too.

Amazing how many people on this thread think a nice sit down and a chat with Islamist terrorists over a cup of tea will resolve things.

There's even people talking about ISIS as if they're reasonable and wouldn't have been such naughty boys if The West hadn't gone into Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

Understand that they want the 'non-believers' dead, by whatever barbaric means possible.

The way they treat their own girls and women should be enough for you to see what they are but still the bleeding hearts are convinced they just need a chat. FFS.

Give me strength...

Of course, Egypt does not have any interest in opening the border. In history, when ever the surrounding nations let in Palestinians, they made trouble in those countries. Look at Jordan and what happened in Black September where a Pakistani general was brought in to slaughter the Palestinians.

You’ll be waiting a long time for that media outcry. Probably as long as Israeli governments have been terrorising Palestinians.

This massacre was set up by the Israelis who massacred themselves for 'convenience'.

It hasn't been terribly convenient though has it? Not for the young people who were murdered, and not for their parents. The murderers recorded their crimes in their victims' Facebook live.

Can you have the humanity to acknowledge that?

I will really acknowledge the crime of the occupation.

And actually it is worth noting that in cases when Israeli soldiers have raped Palestinians the papers have been blocked from reporting it. We don't have any way of knowing how often this happens, but it will occasionally come out through freedom of information requests following court cases.

But hasn't history proven that this hasn't worked in the past? If you can't force other governments to step up, then what would a ground assault and 'winning' ultimately achieve? What would make it different this time?

I might be oversensitive but the Jews really don't control the media. Honest. I'd tell you if I got an invitation.

But why is it being blocked?
Just report openly about both sides.

The answer seems to be thaI Israel get to trial the terrorists they have arrested and keep on investigate to find who helped. LiKe Europe did recently when under attack. The reaction to 9/11 has been widely criticized and we are moving away from barbarism and "invading a country t we were trying to have controle over anyway to get rid of all the terorists, wink wink". Thank goodness.

Then Israel can give Palestinians their land back, keep to the limit of their own terriitory, stop that controlling madness in Gaza and start respecting Palestinians as human being.

Then maybe aknowledge what they did.

Then I am sure everybody will one step closer tonpeace. Rather than annihilating Palestinains in the open air prison they have been sent to..

Does the BBC (or other 'world broadcasting services') not operate in Israel?

So endless bloodshed is a better solution then?

The last twenty years was pure Netanyahu. Bellicose rhetoric, ample national pride in our brilliant technology, lots of Twitter clips of things going boom, and no boots on the ground.

The difference this time would be boots on the ground.

I don't have any certainty about the future. I do have the certainty that Hamas, like Islamic State, has shown itself to be unbearable in the present. Anything is better than this.

@BigBillyButterBollocks

Many of your posts are utterly appalling.

But you already know that.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

No, criticising Israel is not antisemitic. Having double standards (be it for men and women, white people and POC, the only majority Jewish state vs. other countries) however is a sign or prejudices and biases. And in some cases it is barely veiled antisemitism.

the media I consumed this morning (radio by a state sponsored media outlet, one podcast by an independent one) did emphasise this issue actually. Also about the situation of red cross workers, humanitarian aid etc.

What was also mentioned was the inherent power balances between entities that are expected to adhere to some rules and those that do NOT when it comes to hostages.
The cruelty of Hamas when it comes to their hostages - which includes small children and people with disabilities - is well known.

Israel - with the MANY fault it has - will never match that. And we should not want Israel to match that.

Gilad Shalit (one Israeli hostage) had to be exchanged for OVER THOUSAND Palestinian prisoners, 280 of these served life sentences for planning and perpetrating various terror attacks against Israeli targets.

Are you expecting Israel to grab a few hundred thousand Palestinians children to swap these hostages? They - unlike Hamas - will not do that. Luckily!

It is also fairly difficult to peacefully co-exist with your neighbours when said neighbours desire your complete destruction / eradication and have repeatedly attacked your for over 70 years.

The media like binaries: stories with clear victims and villains.

It messes up their carefully-contrived dichotomy when both sides are equally barbaric.

We have arrested a few hundred foot soldiers. A few tens of thousands, and in particular the leaders who sent them to our villages and farms and music festivals, remain. They have taken hostage (whom they are threatening to execute on Al Jazeera).

We don't have the capability to rescue our hostages, to perform delicate eye surgery, or to arrest anyone, from twenty thousand feet.

What an absolutely horrendous and desperate situation this is. Hamas are without doubt a despicable terrorist organisation, and what they did on Saturday is beyond the pale. However, the siege of Gaza surely can't be the solution, there are innocent people in Gaza who didn't ask for this to happen too. Judging by the troops now massing on the border of Gaza (and let's not forget that the Israelis have the money and equipment and finances to absolutely obliterate Gaza if they so wished) something truly terrible is about to happen.

Israel is also a REALLY convenient enemy for many states in the region. Great for various PR moves.