Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

[Lieblingsessen]

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology

But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

No it wont, the hatred both sides have for each other is huge, then add in the religious elements and you ve a never ending disaster, just read the writings of the Bible.

Most surgeons will remove a malignant cancer in the hope the patient will survive. If it comes back, they may have another go. In the meantime they will monitor the body and act quickly.

Hamas are a cancer. They are an existential threat to Israel.

Hamas’ large-scale offensive shows that the group knows that the coming war may be an existential one, experts say.

Michael, of the INSS, speculates that Hamas may have been trying to provoke an all-out war with Israel, and may have been promised regional backing by its allies should it take place.

“Hamas… has had a very clear strategy which is based on the organizing rationale of a multi-front conflict,” Michael told CNN, adding that Hamas sees Gaza, Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Arab citizens of Israel who support Hamas, and southern Lebanon as potentially supporting its campaign.

A senior Hamas official, Saleh al-Arouri, over the weekend said the militant group was ready for the “worst-case scenario, including a ground invasion.”

He said that the ground invasion would be “the best for us to decide the ending of this battle.”
^^

There needs to be a divorce type peace agreement.

Split the assets fairly.
A mediator who is fair and impartial and is trusted by both.
Ensure that both have decent infrastructure, housing, transport, airport, farming infrastruture.
Ensure that both have access to their holy places of worship.
Do not deprive either of basic human needs.

Other nations should be supporting this agreement not providing weapons to encourage further killings of innocent civillians.

No. You can criticise the State of Israel - many Jewish people don’t agree with the actions of their government.

I don't think people will disagree with you. Peace needs the right conditions.

While Hamas exist and while the Iranian regime exist those conditions will not exist.

You have to be careful how you criticise the State of Israel. Criticising a particular government policies and actions has a lower threshold. The UN and other conventions set this out.

Groups will not need a purpose to exist if the situation is resolved fairly.

Investment is needed to build the two nations.
This investment of weapons from other nations to destroy civilians should be channelled to supporting lifes. Supporting Humanity.

Stop the killings and find peace.
Spilt the assets fairly.

Bit horse and cart though.

Do you accept that two nations cannot exist while Hamas exists? Even Hamas are telling us that. Hamas and the Iranian regime are an existential threat to Israel.

I don’t think most Israelis have any clue about how different their lives to those of the Palestinians- to me the fact that a rave full of partying young Israelis was being held so close to Gaza, where the young people live in appalling conditions is a stark reminder of those differences.

I was thinking about this as well but then I realised that Hamas and their Iranian backers are very unlikely to ever be inclined to organise any music festivals for their young people. They have their own ideology and agenda.

I agree with this.
As always it is women and children who will pay the price for men’s posturing and violence.

You really don't understand the situation, I'm afraid.

Hamas want all Jews dead and Israel to be wiped off the map.

They openly say this.

There is no negotiation. They will only stop murdering, raping and kidnapping Israelis when there are none left.

Of course it is horrific for all civilians caught in this and to see so many children, elderly people and women affected.

But Hamas brought this on their own people with their recent actions.

Israel was always going to react in this way to the atrocity that the terrorists committed. What else did they expect?

You cannot torture and murder Israeli civilians in cold blood within Israel and take hostages without expecting them to retaliate and plan to obliterate Hamas out of existence...

Yes both sides have done wrong for years and this has always been and will always be one of the most difficult conflicts to ever try to resolve as religion always makes things even more difficult.

But Hamas needs to be destroyed. Maybe then will there be a chance for Palestians and Israel to go back to the negotiations table.

I can't blame Israel for sending ground forces and destroying Hamas and their weapons once and for all.

There can never be any trust or discussion while this terrorist group controls Gaza.

It is just awful all around.

Sure you're helping a Jewish colleague. Whilst spending your nights attacking Jewish posters on here and claiming they are 'the most biased'.

Yes. That's convincing. Not.

A fair portion of the western world's response to this seems to be somewhat confused.

It's almost as if they've forgotten their own governments spent over two decades engaged in a "war on terror" in the Middle East during which, they laid seige to entire countries, reduced whole cities to rubble, abducted innocent people for 'interrogation', and killed almost countless civilians.

All this was apparently justified in their eyes to combat the threat of Islamic extremists. Islamic extremists who lived thousands of miles from western borders but who posed a mortal threat to western ideals none the less.

Yet now, when Israel fight the same threat literally on their door step, the same people who supported battling Al Qaeda, the Taliban, ISIS, etc., to the death denounce Israel as monsters and expect them to open their lands to terrorists who have vowed to obliterate them.

Many would have you believe the Palestinians, to a person, are helpless with no agency of their own and ignore the fact that many (some surveys and commentators suggest the majority) support Hamas in their actions, certainly they voted them into power when last afforded the opportunity.

Whether that is true or not Palestinians are no more or less helpless than the Afgans, Iraqis, Syrians, or Libyans were, yet that didn't stop us from launching waves of shock and awe bombing campaigns and launching full-scale invasions to combat our terror threat.

The double standards applied to Israel are mind-boggling.

@StowOnTheWold I remember the PLO being expelled to Tunisia? Arafat, the Kissinger peace missions, then there were wars in the 60s and 70s, confrontations with Syria, its never ending.

They hate each other and its not comparable to a "cancer" and surgery.

Yet now, when Israel fight the same threat literally on their door step, the same people who supported battling Al Qaeda, the Taliban, ISIS, etc., to the death denounce Israel as monsters and expect them to open their lands to terrorists who have vowed to obliterate them

I doubt very much those who wanted rid of Saddam and Gadhafi support the Palestinians or call Israelis monsters.

Nothing to be afraid of, as i do understand the situation.

There are hostiles and atrocities both sides.

All needs to stop.

A resolution can be achieved.

Otherwise living in fear continues for all.

This is no life for anyone.
A peace agreement which is fair is needed.

Well, there are currently nearly 2 million Ukrainian refugees in Poland, so Poland has managed it.

Gaza isn't a prison surrounded by Israel, it has a border with Egypt. So it's time for Egypt to step up and open the border and let in refugees.

Is the relationship between Gaza and Egypt comparable to Ukraine and Poland?

Also it’s always easier to suggest to other countries to step up

Just to say I hope this thread isn't "disappeared" like some of the others on the topic - have learned a fair old bit, which is useful, as it seems to me that so much of the mainstream media (looking at you BBC) is so restricted in trying to gain an understanding of the background to these horrors.
I cycled up to to the Palestinian protests in Kensington yesterday to observe. All essentially peaceful while I was there (twice) - didn't hear everything but saw nothing offensive - the majority of the banners/placards were calling for a Free Palestine, which I hardly see as a hate crime. I saw one very large one calling for a unified state with equal rights. The strongest statement/placards were held aloft by a group of Hasidic Jews.

Just a friendly reminder that there is no Hamas in the West Bank and yet it is still occupied by Israel. Hamas are not the root cause of the problem here. The Israeli occupation is.

Various people etc having been trying to have a stable peace for decades, e.g both sides claim Jerusalem, how can that be negotiated away?

A resolution cannot be found, only very temporary lulls, its going to be an intractable problem for the rest of time.

This is why we need a resolution.
A fair imparital resolution where one side does not have more than the other.
Simplistic yes, but achieable if both want a resolution.

Do you think the Jews in Israel are white?