Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

[Lieblingsessen]

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology

But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

Also, this is not about a new nation state clinging to what it has. 'Settlers' are constantly trying to grab more land from the Palestinians. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-66620250

At what point in time do you consider them a minority? Immediately before the end of british mandate? Yes, indeed, Jews were around a third of the population, and the partition plan has been drawn in line with that. Over the last 5000 years or so? A clear majority, on average.

THERE ARE NO SETTLERS IN GAZA.

Stop with the lies.

Over the last 5000 years or so? A clear majority, on average.

The situation 5000 - 2000 years ago, while historically interesting, is not a justification for the forced creation of a state mainly comprising of incomers.

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It's usually quite a busy border crossing mainly with people coming and going but also some goods [nature of which is unclear ?aid] - it's heavily monitored by Israel, UN and other interested parties to make sure arms aren't being brought into Gaza/Hamas terrorists aren't going into Egypt

I don't think it's set up at present for a major out-flux of refugees or the delivery of huge amounts of urgent humanitarian aid but that could change

There are also illegal tunnels between Gaza and Egypt which get bombed regularly

There are settlers in the West Bank: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/27/israeli-settler-violence-in-west-bank-escalates-huwara

It's all part of the same situation.

Do you not agree with the state of Israel existing at all?

Do you not agree with the state of Israel existing at all?

As I said above, it shouldn't have been created, but since it has, the situation can't be reversed. But trapping the Palestinians in a big prison camp, cutting off their water and electricity and pounding them with bombs is not going to relieve the situation.

Settlers also need to be restrained.

Even if "incomers" were people who were deported just 30 years ago (in 1917) from their ancestral territories by Ottomans, and were just returning back? Interesting. What is the statute of limitations on deportations then? 100 years? 50 years? 10 years? Come on, there must be a number.

I can't say I am surprised at the actions of Hamas if the Israeli government allowed the mosque in Jerusalem to be disrespected. They need to crack down on that. Plus spitting at Christian's by some Jews. You can't then wonder at resentment caused by this.

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Described it perfectly. A war mongering post. Leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

Honestly, I am sometimes in awe of how some people think. So, if someone has "disrespected" your religion, you'd go and kill their 4 year old in return, as a completely proportional and fair response? Serious question, I am an atheist and religious people sometimes scare me.

Even if "incomers" were people who were deported just 30 years ago

Just how many of these incomers were people who'd been deported 30 years ago? Thirty years is a long time. I can't believe it was a large proportion.

Quite a few of the newcomers were from Communist states like Poland and Romania. Had they all been living in Palestine thirty years before? Seems unlikely.

"The foundation of the state was based on violence (Irgun, Stern Gang) and was against the wishes of Palestinians living in the area, as well as their neighbours. That's why they were attacked. "

The UN voted that the hundreds of thousands of Jews living for decades in the British mandate of Palestine should have a state.

Israel exists and has done for 75 years. It was by no means an immaculate conception - I'm not sure if state can be formed without any violence - but respectfully, it is time to move on.

It has nothing to do with revenge or 'an eye for an eye'.

It has to do with safety.

Up to now, despite the Hamas founding charter explicitly calling for the global genocide of all Jews, despite the numerous devastating suicide bombings, massacres, knifings etc over many years, by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups, Israelis have clung to the hope that a two-state solution next door to Hamas was possible, that a peaceful compromise could be reached.

The events of last weekend showed beyond any reasonable doubt that that hope was a lie. That there never was and never can be 'peace' with monsters who make complex, long-term plans to rape and murder your teens, behead your babies, murder your grandparents and live stream the murder on the grandmother's own Facebook page so her granddaughter could see it, take whole families hostage, torture and execute your soldiers, set fire to people's homes with them in it, etc. We would never consider having ISIS living next door. And no fucking way would we consider it out moral duty to feed, water and medicate them while they continue to try to murder all of us in the most horrific ways. 😡

Israelis are entitled to live in peace. They are entitled to safety. If Hamas desires Jewish genocide above all else, above the lives of their own people, if Hamas chooses to stockpile only rockets and not food, If they choose to build terror tunnels not water desalination plants, in nearly 20 years of ruling over Gaza, that is absolutely on them, NOT on Israel.

Israeli lives are not worth less than Palestinian lives. Israelis are not required to support those who would kill them, who are actively trying to kill them. Self-defence is not only valid in law, it is an important moral principle. And those demanding Israelis risk their own safety to support their would-be murderers are the immoral ones. 😡

Well I wouldn't obviously but it is a symbol of how one people are treating another. Some Israeli people view Palestinians as inferior so will treat mosques etc with disrespect. I am not saying I would do it but there is only so far you can treat others with contempt before there is a fight back. I am not sure why Israelis are so surprised?

Yes it's medieval, and reflects the Israel approach to their withdrawal of basic human rights for Palestinians in general

So were Poland and Romania those powerful imperialist nations who created the state of Israel? Gotcha.

Yes, during that aliyah most of the new settlers were from recently deported Jewish populations, with the new generations born in exile, of course (30 years is not a long time- I lost my own homeland around 10 years ago, and I promise you it is very fresh in my mind, not some old news no one cares about). What you are thinking about happened much later.

There is a reason why the concept of "aliyah" even exists in Jewish culture, from literally biblical times. Constant deportations and ethnic cleansing in the area.

All hostages should be freed as the first step. I cannot get my head round Hamas taking little kids hostage. It’s utterly disgusting. That photo of the two little Israeli girls who have been kidnapped is heartbreaking. I will rejoice if they get freed. Though goodness knows what the longer effects of the trauma will be on them.

Real people’s are being destroyed. Whilst we debate and bicker on here, the reality for many right now is utter torture.

Also ignores the fact that Hamas terrorists destroyed a synagogue in southern Israel too, in their rampage at the weekend.

But apparently what's sauce for the goose isn't sauce for the gander - if it's a Jewish place of worship that's destroyed, then Jews are supposed to just look the other way.

I'm sure some Israelis do view Palestinians as inferior. Do you really not know that some Palestinians view Israelis as inferior? Did you follow the other thread at all? The history was laid out there very well. Or you could find some Palestinians who feel that way easily enough and ask them. You'll certainly find them on twitter.

And this is the issue, colonial Britain comes along and offers the land to people when really wtf what Britain doing there? What gave Britain the right to decide who gets what?

I believe the Palestine people were unhappy with the proposal because they were the majority inhabitant population but were offered a much smaller percentage of land.

So if 80% of the population gets offered 20% of the land they’re not going to be happy. (percentages may not be accurate)

so why was a fairer share not proposed?

It is when it's convenient for the Western world. Hypocrites. Unfortunately, we are step closer to WW3.