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Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

1000 replies

Lieblingsessen · 09/10/2023 19:19

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology

But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

OP posts:
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SammyScrounge · 10/10/2023 01:11

topnoddy · 09/10/2023 20:01

If you say Israel is wrong in doing this are you anti semetic ?

No. I agree with Israel's bombing -.'hamas chose the time and place.
But I Don t agree with the cancelling of basic necessities. Hamas will feed itself then carry the corpses of starved children through the town blaming Israel.
I can understand that Israel has had more than enough of Hamas and would like to chase them out of the Gaza strip. But this is not the way.

SequentialAnalyst · 10/10/2023 01:26

It's been rather like this since Biblical times Sad

Then there's that lovely law "an eye for a eye, a tooth for a tooth." Sad

With 20th Century history being what it is, you might have thought that a more compassionate approach to resolving the Israel-Palestinian situation might have occurred to someone. But it never seems to have Sad

I saw an excellent, intelligent, and informative programme about this last year some time, by Robert Rinder. It gave me hope. Hopes now dashed SadAngry

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 01:27

slore · 10/10/2023 01:11

Fully agree with this. Other countries joining in wars that don't involve them only makes the war much bigger. See also: "helping" Ukraine in a way that is totally aggravating to Russia and prolonging and inflaming the situation.

Other countries should offer aid to civilians only, while calling for moderation and negotiations.

Israel do have this within their control and do not currently need even more Western military aid.

But it's obvious that this is leading to a future justification for the West starting war with Iran, and Russia, the Arab world and most of Africa will side with Iran. China will as well, if they've tried to take control of Taiwan by then.

Ukraine would be fully Russian by now if they didn't receive "help", don't be daft. And the world can't exactly afford Russia getting their hand on the grains and natural resources. So no, we should not have refuse to "help" Ukraine. Russia never had any intention to negotiate.

Aggravating Russia during their 764th genocide and land grab? Oh no... We can't let that happen.

placemats · 10/10/2023 01:28

Livelovebehappy · 09/10/2023 19:48

Honestly, you can’t blame Israel for retaliating like this. When you read of the heartbreaking executions Hamas have carried out on Israeli families, they have to protect their people, which calls for harsh measures. There was a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians prior to this, and Israel had to toe the line. But now Hamas have played right into their hands, because the sympathy has now gone on the back of their savagery, and Israel have the green light to do what they have to do.

So Israel retaliate like the savages?

yazoolove · 10/10/2023 01:31

The Israeli government hiding in a fake facade of democracy and thinking about its own citizens is absolute bollocks they only ever cared about the Great Israeli project they have been dreaming of expanding and erasing anything that got in the way even their own citizens. Normal sane Jews are against Israel and their inhumane policies. Hamas is a terrorist organisation but Israel is war criminals and the most sadistic recognised state that terrorises civilians to the point of destruction genocide.

Israel stands no chance against a real war hence why they've always used disproportionate force such as throw the prisoners in a room, tie their arms and legs and blind fold them and let them fight you against your phosphorus bombs whilst blocking any humanitarian aid just to avoid arms delivered. But God forbid Israel clashing against a armed country without the help of the US and the west that's how weak they are, only the weak will bomb people during Friday prayers, bombing mosques and hospitals until this date. Attacking worshippers on their holy grounds. Only the weak would do that, the cowards. So yes, they are no different to Hamas.

slore · 10/10/2023 01:41

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 01:27

Ukraine would be fully Russian by now if they didn't receive "help", don't be daft. And the world can't exactly afford Russia getting their hand on the grains and natural resources. So no, we should not have refuse to "help" Ukraine. Russia never had any intention to negotiate.

Aggravating Russia during their 764th genocide and land grab? Oh no... We can't let that happen.

And what of it? Much fewer people would have died, Ukraine would have had the social/health benefits of being a proxy of a much wealthier country, and proper re-separation could have been negotiated in the future - Putin's an old man and will die at some point.

They should have never fallen for the contrived pro-Western 2014 "revolution" which turned Ukraine into a hell hole. The war in the separatist regions of Ukraine have been raging since then, by the way.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 01:43

slore · 10/10/2023 01:41

And what of it? Much fewer people would have died, Ukraine would have had the social/health benefits of being a proxy of a much wealthier country, and proper re-separation could have been negotiated in the future - Putin's an old man and will die at some point.

They should have never fallen for the contrived pro-Western 2014 "revolution" which turned Ukraine into a hell hole. The war in the separatist regions of Ukraine have been raging since then, by the way.

I'm glad people like you are just ignored on that matter, really..

sashh · 10/10/2023 02:19

LizzieSiddal · 09/10/2023 19:30

Isreal should retaliate and bomb the hell out of Hamas, but to starve the general population is horrific and surely a war crime.

They have been starving people for generations. Well they (Israel) have calculated how much food is needed and then they allow just a little bit less through.

Yalta · 10/10/2023 02:55

Whilst posters are saying that Hamas are separate from Palestine and the Palestinian people don’t support Hamas.
Could someone explain the scenes involving Palestinians celebrating the attack if they don’t agree with what Hamas did.

Yalta · 10/10/2023 02:59

slore
If you feel that Russia is such a great nation that people should just hand themselves over to their rule because Russia decides it wants to expand its territory then what are you doing still in the UK.

TheresaOfAvila · 10/10/2023 03:31

ChesterDrawz · 09/10/2023 21:49

You are being deliberately downright obtuse.

At no point has ANYONE said the Palestinian people are animals or that they should be exterminated, and well you know it.

Actually, I infer from the Israeli government’s declaration of war and their action to block off Food and water, that they wish to see every resident of Gaza dead, and are prepared to starve them to do that.

I think that is the logical conclusion.

AUserNameIsNot · 10/10/2023 03:51

I am an Israeli Jew. I believe that the Palestinians in the West Bank live under apartheid rule. I support Palestine and a Palestinian state. I am opposed to the occupation.

Until this Saturday, I opposed Netanyahu and his government of fruitcakes, but now priorities have to change.

We have seen the massacres of civilians the like of which we have not seen since the Einsatzgruppen went to Ukraine, since the Cossacks raped and ran our people down. We cannot negotiate with those who live stream their barbarism. We cannot negotiate with ISIS.

At the moment I feel utterly united with the whole nation of Israel in its war against the Isis style government of Gaza

This is our Bataclan. Our 9/11. Our Blitz. Our Pearl Harbour. They are our ISIS. What they do not understand is we are now bound with them into a struggle to death whatever the cost to us and to them. Their regime must fall.

If they had attacked military targets we could not complain. If they dragged off our bloodied and dazed 19 year old soldiers to Gaza, that would be in the nature of the conflict of nations, and I have already explained I feel a great deal of sympathy with the plight of the Palestinian people. There are no shortages of military targets around Gaza, and they achieved an impressive feat in overwhelming our military bases and destroying our most modern weapons.

But they did not come to fight against our soldiers.

When they came such was the shock they had 5 hours they could have spent on military objectives. Instead they were exultant, live streaming, driving up and down the paths of a music festival in pick ups, to methodically kill our children, to rape and then murder our girls, to kill Thai farmers with a shovel while shouting in a grotesque blasphemy Allahu Akhbar..... We have seen that look in the eye of the Gentiles for thousands of years.

The world is disgusted and ashamed.

No more.

We act not out of anger, and not out of fear, but out of a love for the lives of our children who have been born and have not yet been born, so that they should never know such horrors.

We cannot and we will not judge force to a nicety. We. Are. At. War.

The terrible truth is that we cannot even surgically work around our own children and elderly held hostage. We must put our operational needs above their safety. The bombs will fall where they need to fall, on the tunnels and weapons caches, and may God have mercy on the poor souls, the souls of the hostages, the souls of the civilians of Gaza, and especially their poor children and elderly.

During both world wars, during the Falklands war, during the Iraq war, it was widely accepted that during war time all supplies are blockaded including supplies of food. British planes dropped botulism to kill German cattle and to starve the German people. The horrors of Hamburg, Dresden, Hiroshima live on. More recently, Ukraine turned Crimean agriculture into dust when they turned off the waters of the North Caucasus canal in 2014. The Sri Lankan war ended in a full on assault with mortars against a ragged encampment full of fighters and women and children, and that was the end of Isis and that will be the end of Hamas.

This is the nature of war. We try not to hit the civilians, but violence is violent and we cannot always carry out precise surgery under fire.

We. Are. At. War.

We fight for our own country and our own children, for our boys and girls, and for our freedom. War is terrible, but war has come to our homes, our religious festivities, and our farms, our villages and our dancing, to our children and our grandparents, and there is now no turning back, no half measures.

We are at war. At this time there is: No food. No water. No petrol. No electricity. Not for our own people held hostage in Gaza and not for their people.

We will re-evaluate in a few days after we have captured more ground.

Yalta · 10/10/2023 04:10

Didn’t Netanyahu tell Gazans to leave 2 days ago.

What I don’t understand is what Hamas thought would happen. Why were Palestinians celebrating when anyone who actually understood the reality of what was happening and what would happen could see it wasn’t something to be cheered
It was a dark day for both Israel and what happened and what is about to happen to Palestine
But Palestinian people worldwide didn’t seem to understand that Israel would retaliate and what that retaliation would look like,

Mind you we have posters on here suggesting the families and fellow countrymen of those who died or were kidnapped in the attack should feel sorry for those who were celebrating their sibling/parents/spouse/child’s death and send aid packages to them and feel sorry for them

mapleriver · 10/10/2023 04:11

If my family had been taken hostage by Hamas I would probably want this to happen too everyone in Gaza, civillian or not. It's easy to see where it's coming from even if it's distasteful. War is brutal

TheresaOfAvila · 10/10/2023 04:37

Yalta · 10/10/2023 04:10

Didn’t Netanyahu tell Gazans to leave 2 days ago.

What I don’t understand is what Hamas thought would happen. Why were Palestinians celebrating when anyone who actually understood the reality of what was happening and what would happen could see it wasn’t something to be cheered
It was a dark day for both Israel and what happened and what is about to happen to Palestine
But Palestinian people worldwide didn’t seem to understand that Israel would retaliate and what that retaliation would look like,

Mind you we have posters on here suggesting the families and fellow countrymen of those who died or were kidnapped in the attack should feel sorry for those who were celebrating their sibling/parents/spouse/child’s death and send aid packages to them and feel sorry for them

I think he wants them to leave via the humanitarian corridor that he’s bombing. Everywhere else is blockaded. What do you think you would do in that situation?

FiveShelties · 10/10/2023 04:47

The older I get, the more I realise we have learnt absolutely nothing from the past. We just keep fighting and killing and it is just so futile and sad.

SinkingSilently · 10/10/2023 05:06

BigBillyButterBollocks · 09/10/2023 22:56

The whole "Palestinians did it to themselves" or "Look what Palestinians are making Israel do" is sickening. Absolutely sickening. Abusers' gaslighting, really.

The victim-blaming of ordinary Palestinians is appalling. Yet criticise the Israeli government and it is ‘antisemitic’. Such double standards.

SinkingSilently · 10/10/2023 05:07

Truthisbetterthanlies · 09/10/2023 22:55

You know that if you say

"the fact that Israel has created an open air prison in Gaza for the last 16 years and completely disengaged with any sort of meaningful peace process"

doesn't actually make either of those two things facts?

As they're both blatant lies?

Gaza is nothing like an open air prison - well, not unless prisons are extremely luxurious and you can go out of them when you choose. Have you seen this Twitter user, Imshin (@imshin) / X (twitter.com), who regularly posts pictures of Gaza's luxury shopping malls, apartments, restaurants, resorts etc, using the hashtag #TheGazaYouDontSee? I recommend it - here's a selection:

Imshin on X: "Our favorite Hamas minister Dr. Moufeed al-Hassayna celebrating his son's wedding at the 5 star Ayan Hotel (formerly Mashtal) in Gaza. #TheGazaYouDontSee t.co/b4jNyRfGGV t.co/gcblz3X85X" / X (twitter.com)

Lionessque18 🇮🇱📖🩺🔯 on X: "@MariamBarghouti 'Starved'. Would that be in between enjoying a High Street addiction, the hotel buffets, candies covered in literal gold, sweets and cake shops everywhere and an obesity epidemic in both Gaza an Judea & Samaria? #TheGazaYouDontSee t.co/KKkn2DMYzV" / X (twitter.com)

The Giant Lab on X: "A Gazan woman spends the evening at the new Al-Qalaa (TheCastle) Café built on stilts in the sea on Gaza City seafront. #TheGazaYouDontSee #Imshin t.co/q2jUsQh00A" / X (twitter.com)

I recommend it - fascinating to see how luxurious the lifestyle is. Though you may be sadly disappointed!

As far as the lack of engagement with the peace process, that's a nice line in DARVO, given Hamas has NEVER engaged with the peace process at all. Whereas Israel has, repeatedly.

Remember that if you have to lie to defend your 'side', it probably wasn't worth defending anyway??

‘Gaza is nothing like an open air prison - well, not unless prisons are extremely luxurious and you can go out of them when you choose.’

Here is where you lose all credibility.

pollyglot · 10/10/2023 05:10

topnoddy · Yesterday 20:01

If you say Israel is wrong in doing this are you anti semetic ?

Is this a rhetorical question? Or is it the same old same old...?

luckylavender · 10/10/2023 05:15

IMustDoMoreExercise · 09/10/2023 19:38

The leader of the SNP has said that his mother is trapped there I think.

No he said his in laws are trapped there

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/10/2023 05:23

Ratsoffasinkingsauage · 09/10/2023 23:05

I didn’t misconstrue the post about fishing. I was mocking it for being ridiculous.

Why was the post ridiculous??

Purposely restricting free access to fish in open water will result in over fishing of the permitted area and reduce the adult population of fish in that location. Once a large proportion of adult fish are removed from the eco system, fishing stocks will struggle to replenish; we require adult fish to reproduce.

Overfishing has happened in waters surrounding the uk, which is partly the reason for some people voting for Brexit. This is why we have fishing quotas and luckily for us, apart from our own stupidity of voting ourselves out of the largest local trading block, we have free movement of goods and food into our country and enough drinking water. And luckily for us we do not need to overfish to feed our population.

Clafoutie · 10/10/2023 05:33

mapleriver · 10/10/2023 04:11

If my family had been taken hostage by Hamas I would probably want this to happen too everyone in Gaza, civillian or not. It's easy to see where it's coming from even if it's distasteful. War is brutal

I find that ‘eye for an eye’ philosophy so very bleak and dark. When it is played out, the consequences are considerably more than just ‘distasteful’. Of course the desire for revenge is human, but we never seem to learn that ‘you killed my child, so I will kill yours’ is a never-ending cycle of death and suffering.

SinkingSilently · 10/10/2023 05:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Asking people to have a sense of humour on this kind of thread?
Being pedantic about grammar, even though it was obvious what that poster meant about the fish, to most people?

Please have some respect.

mapleriver · 10/10/2023 05:57

@Clafoutie I agree it gets nowhere, but try thinking that when it happens to you. I doubt you could

Pinkflamingopants · 10/10/2023 06:14

@Truthisbetterthanlies shouting ‘anti semite’ to every person who makes a valid point about the (illegal) reaction from the Israeli government on the illegal and horrific attacks by Hamas makes it impossible to have any proper discussion or debate.

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