Page 16 | Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

Lieblingsessen · 2023-10-09T18:19:49+00:00

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval. Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

suzy2b · 10/10/2023 00:19

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Truthisbetterthanlies · 10/10/2023 00:20

vinoandbrie · 09/10/2023 21:37

Credit: Imtiaz Mahmood

“Hamas: "WE WANT TO KILL YOU"

Okay, I'll seal you off from us so you can't kill us. You can manage yourselves and we'll provide aid and electricity for free.

Hamas: "WHAT?+ THIS IS A SIEGE! OPEN AIR PRISON! GENOCIDE!"

If we let you out, will you kill us?

Hamas: "YES. WE WILL KILL EVERY JEW WE FIND."

Okay. No.

Hamas escapes and kills every Jew they find.

Islamic World: "See, they did this because you built this wall. Israel, this is your fault.”

Ouch.

But accurate.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 00:21

Truthisbetterthanlies · 10/10/2023 00:11

Entirely up to you, but if you make obviously false claims like 'apartheid state' or state as fact that Israel hasn't engaged with the peace process at all, then my first assumption is going to be that you're deliberately lying.

To be fair, it's possible you maybe just a) live in an echo chamber, or b) are quite new to the topic and uninformed.

Either way, if you are too delicate to cope with being picked up when you post falsehoods on a public forum, I can't help that.

I'm not going to gently avoid picking you up on these - people's safety (including mine and my family's) are quite literally at stake here. You'll have seen the reports, I assume, about the current threats to British Jews in the current febrile atmosphere?

So no, I'm not going to give these lies a free pass, just because you claim that elsewhere you post posts that are more pro-Israel (no idea if you do or not - I don't have the time or inclination to read through your other previous posts to find out, and it wouldn't make this post any truer, even if you had been accurate in a different post.)

So stay or don't stay. Flounce off if you wish. if I don't care either way.

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You are denying undeniable facts that have been pointed out by governments, organisations and legal organisations for years and years.

To be honest, you are spreading propaganda in such petty bad faith, it's hard to take you seriously.

BurrosTail · 10/10/2023 00:21

Also for those living in a barrel and being surprised that Israel has a long history of war crimes: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

every time there is a terrorist attack by Palestinians, Israel kills multiple times more civilians. Got to say Hamas is disgusting but so is Israel gov.

Infographic: The Human Cost Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

This chart shows Israeli & Palestinian deaths/injuries documented by the UN in Gaza and the West Bank.

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

ChickenSoupAndLokshen · 10/10/2023 00:22

EsmaCannonball · 09/10/2023 21:36

It's horrible for the innocent people in Gaza but I can't think of any other war where a country was obliged to supply or facilitate the supply of goods to their enemy. It would be an insanely poor military tactic. A humanitarian corridor into Egypt needs to be created for civilians but I don't think either Egypt or Hamas wants that. Hamas wants the deaths to fuel their bigger plan.

Hamas are jihadis; they don't care about Palestinians suffering and dying. In fact, they actively want it for the optics and to be able to claim grievance when they are actually the sadistic aggressor. As with Yemen, this is a proxy war for bigger issues in the region.

Spot on. Until Hamas values its people's lives more than their deaths then peace will not happen.

NotTerfNorCis · 10/10/2023 00:24

Please remember everyone, this didn't start with Hamas. The entire history of Israel has been violent.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 00:24

VerityUnreasonble · 09/10/2023 23:51

Palestinians who live in Israel, and there are plenty (about 20% of the population) have the same human rights as all other citizens of Israel.

The same cannot be said for Jewish people in Hammas governed Palestine / Gaza. Nor can it be said for women or LBGT people. All of whom are actually denied basic human rights. Gaza is not Israeli territory.

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Palestinians who live in Israel, and there are plenty (about 20% of the population) have the same human rights as all other citizens of Israel.

Puh-lease

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/27/israeli-protests-cast-light-on-laws-discriminating-against-palestinians#:~:text=In%20July%202022%2C%20Israel's%20Supreme,them%2C%20after%20rendering%20them%20stateless.

ChickenSoupAndLokshen · 10/10/2023 00:24

vinoandbrie · 09/10/2023 21:37

Credit: Imtiaz Mahmood

“Hamas: "WE WANT TO KILL YOU"

Okay, I'll seal you off from us so you can't kill us. You can manage yourselves and we'll provide aid and electricity for free.

Hamas: "WHAT?+ THIS IS A SIEGE! OPEN AIR PRISON! GENOCIDE!"

If we let you out, will you kill us?

Hamas: "YES. WE WILL KILL EVERY JEW WE FIND."

Okay. No.

Hamas escapes and kills every Jew they find.

Islamic World: "See, they did this because you built this wall. Israel, this is your fault.”

Not just the Islamic world unfortunately. It seems like the majority of people throughout the world are ill informed/antisemitic and blame Israel.

Original poster

Lieblingsessen · 10/10/2023 00:26

To all those that agree that collective punishment should not be happening and should be called out for what it is, inhumane and a war crime, thank you. 👏

To those posters such as @Truthisbetterthanlies, I will leave you to your, off point, musings.

You demonstrate so clearly, that there are those who will never be open to reasonable debate, without feeling the need to constantly shout down, belittle or attack anyone who doesn't agree with you.

OP posts:

NotTerfNorCis · 10/10/2023 00:26

Israel wasn't founded with peace, love, and the agreement of all its neighbours and most of the people already living in that area. This is kind of the point.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 00:28

ChickenSoupAndLokshen · 10/10/2023 00:24

Not just the Islamic world unfortunately. It seems like the majority of people throughout the world are ill informed/antisemitic and blame Israel.

Show quote history

This is such a childish and simplified (and one sided dishonest) representation of the situation...

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 00:30

Lieblingsessen · 10/10/2023 00:26

To all those that agree that collective punishment should not be happening and should be called out for what it is, inhumane and a war crime, thank you. 👏

To those posters such as @Truthisbetterthanlies, I will leave you to your, off point, musings.

You demonstrate so clearly, that there are those who will never be open to reasonable debate, without feeling the need to constantly shout down, belittle or attack anyone who doesn't agree with you.

I am kind of happy to see how few people actually are ready to become barbarians and be bullied into turning a blind eye to what is being done to Palestinians. It gives me hope there will be a public outcry and the worst might be avoided?

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 00:32

NotTerfNorCis · 10/10/2023 00:24

Please remember everyone, this didn't start with Hamas. The entire history of Israel has been violent.

When you confront people defending Israel's action blindly with facts proving exactly that, they lose their connection or something because they never seem to see the messages.

Lonelycrab · 10/10/2023 00:34

You demonstrate so clearly, that there are those who will never be open to reasonable debate, without feeling the need to constantly shout down, belittle or attack anyone who doesn't agree with you

Yes, I’ve noticed that too.

Freshstart78 · 10/10/2023 00:37

I read my grandfathers memoirs recently, many years after his passing as they stayed with my grandma until her passing.

He was a fighter pilot and very troubled by what he had to do during WW2 - but knew it’s necessity. He wrote that the only proud moment he has was during operation manna. They dropped food parcels to relieve famine in nazi occupied Netherlands. Also to some Germans I assume. But that didn’t matter. Because they saved many civilian lives from a slow exhausting death.

What they are doing is wrong.

suzy2b · 10/10/2023 00:47

Jews arriving in Israel just took over houses that belong to Palasinians should never have happened

FSTraining · 10/10/2023 00:48

This is not the kind of war we've become more familiar with in the West, where one side is clearly the aggressor and then NATO intervenes to deliver justice. This is a war that will be conducted by evil on both sides; Natanyahu and his far right government on the one hand and the Islamofascist Hamas on the other. Innocent civilians - Palestinians and Israelis alike - will suffer as a consequence.

The West, as always, will make the mistake of 'siding with Israel' (which really means siding with the Israeli government, which is not the same thing) rather than condemning the entire situation, remaining neutral and holding all these leaders accountable for their actions.

Dreamingofthathouse · 10/10/2023 00:58

How dull - the post said that the Israeli Naval control how far Palestinian fishermen can go. NOT how far the fish go.
Are you just misinterpreting previous posts on purpose to make a point that this thread is antisemitic?

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 01:01

beAsensible1 · 09/10/2023 23:46

White phosphorus is now being used against Gaza.

Absolutely horrific. How inhumane.

WhatIsTheTruth · 10/10/2023 01:03

BurrosTail · 10/10/2023 00:21

Also for those living in a barrel and being surprised that Israel has a long history of war crimes: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

every time there is a terrorist attack by Palestinians, Israel kills multiple times more civilians. Got to say Hamas is disgusting but so is Israel gov.

Sorry to be obtuse but isn’t the higher casualty rate in Palestinian territory because Hamas generally position their operations in heavily populated areas near schools and hospitals deliberately to achieve the highest casualty rate and therefore paint Israel as the aggressor?

Link below is a UN report:

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181056/

Is there any evidence of Israel using child suicide bombers or indeed adult suicide bombers?

Can I just ask anyone who is educated on this, if Israel removed the blockade from Gaza, what do you think would happen?

Palestinian exploitation of children as weapons of war HRC 27th session - NGO statement (Amuta for NGO Responsibility)

Written statement* submitted by the Amuta for NGO Responsibility, a non-governmental organization in special consultative status The Secretary-General has received the following written statement which is circulated in accordance with Economic...

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181056/

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 01:05

Jackienory · 09/10/2023 23:48

You reap what you sow.

Which side are you referring to? Do they both deserve to be starved?

What a ridiculous thing to say.

slore · 10/10/2023 01:05

I agree. The Israeli government are behaving like the terrorists they despise: massacring random civilians to get revenge on the leadership of a group you don't like is morally unjustifiable. Their youtube adverts to stand with them are not about keeping Israeli people safe, but about exacting revenge.

Innocents always suffer the most in war. War is always caused by governments, not the population (Hamas is the government of Gaza), and I wish people would see that and stop ever blaming human beings, or thinking that war is justified.

It's a vicious circle of blame and suffering, and how governments control their people's psyche and get them to accept their lives being put at risk for war, or voluntarily being government murder pawns (soldiers/terrorists).

Hamas's actions have set back the Palestinian cause by years and entrenched the views of the countries and people who already dislike them. They've made the situation for their own people a million times worse, but their people won't see it.

Israel's planned retaliation on the population of Gaza is going to set back their own cause by years, and entrench the views of the countries and people who already hate them and see the existence of their settlement in the Middle East as the world's biggest problem. Similarly, Israel's government are about to make their own citizen's safety and lives worse, but their people won't see that they are at fault.

Israel would win a lot more international support and keep their people safer from future attacks if they took the high road and reacted to this with moderation, doing no more than is needed, and doing their utmost to spare Palestinian suffering.

Oh, and Gazans will have no choice but to evacuate by sea when conditions become unsurvivable; hello to hundreds of thousands more boat people arriving in Europe, containing an unknown proportion of terrorists who want to kill us all.

FSTraining · 10/10/2023 01:06

Dreamingofthathouse · 10/10/2023 00:58

How dull - the post said that the Israeli Naval control how far Palestinian fishermen can go. NOT how far the fish go.
Are you just misinterpreting previous posts on purpose to make a point that this thread is antisemitic?

Apparently Netanyahu used to hire a whole army of goons to trawl the internet to accuse any post that was anti-Likud of being anti-Semitic. Now I assume they just use bots.

Either way, just ignore them. Netanyahu is a far right thug who is just as culpable for the violence in the Middle East as Hamas. Netanyahu's priority is Netanyahu, not Israel.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 10/10/2023 01:07

FSTraining · 10/10/2023 00:48

This is not the kind of war we've become more familiar with in the West, where one side is clearly the aggressor and then NATO intervenes to deliver justice. This is a war that will be conducted by evil on both sides; Natanyahu and his far right government on the one hand and the Islamofascist Hamas on the other. Innocent civilians - Palestinians and Israelis alike - will suffer as a consequence.

The West, as always, will make the mistake of 'siding with Israel' (which really means siding with the Israeli government, which is not the same thing) rather than condemning the entire situation, remaining neutral and holding all these leaders accountable for their actions.

When this goes horribly wrong for Palestinians (and it will), they are going to have a hard time explain their stance. They will regret not having balls..

slore · 10/10/2023 01:11

FSTraining · 10/10/2023 00:48

This is not the kind of war we've become more familiar with in the West, where one side is clearly the aggressor and then NATO intervenes to deliver justice. This is a war that will be conducted by evil on both sides; Natanyahu and his far right government on the one hand and the Islamofascist Hamas on the other. Innocent civilians - Palestinians and Israelis alike - will suffer as a consequence.

The West, as always, will make the mistake of 'siding with Israel' (which really means siding with the Israeli government, which is not the same thing) rather than condemning the entire situation, remaining neutral and holding all these leaders accountable for their actions.

Fully agree with this. Other countries joining in wars that don't involve them only makes the war much bigger. See also: "helping" Ukraine in a way that is totally aggravating to Russia and prolonging and inflaming the situation.

Other countries should offer aid to civilians only, while calling for moderation and negotiations.

Israel do have this within their control and do not currently need even more Western military aid.

But it's obvious that this is leading to a future justification for the West starting war with Iran, and Russia, the Arab world and most of Africa will side with Iran. China will as well, if they've tried to take control of Taiwan by then.