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Original poster

Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

1000 replies

Lieblingsessen · 09/10/2023 19:19

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology

But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

OP posts:
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miniegg3 · 09/10/2023 23:31

Dymaxion · 09/10/2023 21:36

no, Israel control the sea. It’s why Gaza is known as the worlds largest prison. It’s a total siege

Can Egypt not open its border to the people of Gaza ? Do they not want to ? is that why it is a total siege ?

Egypt don't want them

EasternStandard · 09/10/2023 23:31

Spambod · 09/10/2023 23:25

Gaza is not occupied. Israel withdrew a long time ago.Hamas is the elected leadership, albeit in 2016. Israel has the right and must do for security, to close their border with Gaza. Israel is under attack from Gaza. Israel has no obligation to supply Gaza with water or electricity. They are at war with Gaza.
any humanitarian crisis as a result of this needs to be aimed at hamas who have never pretended to less than a shit about their own people who they rule with an iron fist.
hamas knew Israel would do this. How much aid money have they spent on their own water supply and generators as contingency. None.

I’m wondering about comparable situations where supplies are provided by a state that is then attacked by the recipients

Truthisbetterthanlies · 09/10/2023 23:32

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Haffiana · 09/10/2023 23:32

Israel is surrounded by many other countries, some of them very, very rich countries indeed. Why are none of those countries giving aid and water and electricity to Gaza? Why are they not giving aid across the Egyptian border? Why are they not allowing refugees?

Why do posters here think Israel has to do it rather than those many rich countries in the area?

Why are they not? Even the EU until just now was giving millions and millions to Gaza in aid...

Pollyputhekettleon · 09/10/2023 23:33

NotTerfNorCis · 09/10/2023 23:23

So Jews being second class citizens - 'you're not that interested'.

Jews and Christians would be Dhimmis. 'People of the book.' As you probably know - members of the Abrahamic faiths that led to Islam. They had a special status above members of polytheistic religions.

I'm trying to find out what caused it, which obviously requires an understanding of history. All of it. Lots of people really want to understand that, we discussed it on the other thread. I'm really trying to find pro-Palestinian people who can answer some of these questions

You don't seem to be asking a question. You want Muslims universally to apologise for 'dhimmitude'. Funnily enough, right wing groups in Britain have the same obsession.

It's not exactly high praise to say they had higher status than members of polytheistic religions! I notice you're saying nothing about the status of those unfortunate groups. But anyway, you haven't denied that they were second class citizens.

I did ask you questions, several of them. You didn't answer. I'll repeat the main remaining one, which is would it not have been a decent thing to do to allow the Jews to get their state back in the 1930s, as a way of apologizing for centuries of dhimmitude? I believe modern leftists would call that centuries of systemic oppression, requiring reparations.

A poster on the other thread also suggested I think that one of the reasons the Arabs refused to let the Jews have their state at that time is because they strongly objected to former dhimmis getting out from under that system and having their own territory on what they viewed as lands conquered by Islam. Do you disagree with that?

cakeorwine · 09/10/2023 23:34

Truthisbetterthanlies · 09/10/2023 23:29

I said that actually.

And I was quoting your post. You said "He was talking to the fishermen who were talking about how far they could fish and how the waters did not have much fish in them. All under the eye of the Israeli Navy who controlled how far they could go."

The last-mentioned noun that the final "they" referred to was therefore the "fish" in the previous sentence.

It's not my fault you are incapable of writing using correct grammar to say what you mean. If you write nonsense, expect to have the piss taken out of you! Maybe you should learn to write what you mean, instead of expecting your reader to figure out you meant something entirely different!

Show quote history

You might want to think critically then before posting.

You didn't take the piss.

"I see the more unsual and creative antisemitic tropes are getting an airing in this thread!"

You accused me of an antisemitic trope.

That is a serious accusation. Please withdraw it.

ketchup07070 · 09/10/2023 23:35

I think much of the world has refugee fatigue, or doesn't feel able to cope with 2 million more. Egypt can't really be blamed for being hesitant.

bombastix · 09/10/2023 23:36

Hamas do not care; it won't be them who die.

The world is terrified of what Israel can do; well so they should be. There are many issues with current Israeli government but they are an incredible people. Literally so, because they've fought, innovated and created a modern state. They will survive this okay.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 09/10/2023 23:36

feellikeanalien · 09/10/2023 22:33

The situations are not really comparable. Manchester and Brussels weren't bombarded with rockets and had their citizens raped and murdered by terrorists going house to house whose avowed aim was to destroy those cities.

Don't get me wrong I think what is happening to the Palestinian people is horrific and I really can't see a solution. Surely some kind of humanitarian corridor could be opened through Egypt at least for women and children but the Egyptians are not keen to do so.

Hammas are terrorists and the Palestinian people deserve better. They knew when they launched the attacks that this would be the response and I agree with others that there is definitely involvement at least from Iran if not other entities.

The whole thing is tragic and ordinary Palestinians and Israelis are the ones who will suffer.

Show quote history

The people finding excuses to the abuse of Palestinians never really even mention what Israel has done to Palestinians.

If you excuse what Israel does to Palestinians because "they had their citizens raped and murdered by terrorists going house to house whose avowed aim was to destroy those cities", you are ignoring that Israel has done the same to Palestinians.

Going house to house, chasing Palestinians, stealing their housea to give it to settlers, burning their children alive, arresting Palestinian children "for attempt murder" because they resisted when Israelis came and killed their family and giving them 10 years of Prison sentences.

Have you seen the video of Palestinians being beaten by the Israeli army in the Mosque?

Why do you justify one side's violence as a revenge, but not the other? Especially when the side you defend is the one doing most of the oppression? The world is turning a blind eye to the atrocities against Palestinians.

cakeorwine · 09/10/2023 23:37

You can withdraw it or I can report you for accusing me of using antisemitic tropes.

Your choice.

Truthisbetterthanlies · 09/10/2023 23:38

TakeMe2Insanity · 09/10/2023 23:25

Wow now I have heard it all, Palestinians are committing the genocide!

What about the villages obliterated in 1948? What about a whole map of a country renamed? Whole towns and cities renamed? What about the fact there are a group of people called settlers who go and settle on newly claimed land?

Israel was entitled under International Law to name their cities etc whatever the hell they liked.

Why do you not respect international law?

Tough for you that Israel is a legitimate state.

Deal with it.

And yes - if you don't think the events of the last weekend (hunting down and murdering Jews) constitute attempted genocide by Palestinian terrorists, then not sure what you imagine does constitute terrorism.

Symbolic (in a really sad way) that you thought the word 'genocide' deserved an exclamation mark, though.

Ecdysiast · 09/10/2023 23:38

Israel has been complacent about being an apartheid state for far too long. It has been all too easy for Israelis to go about life as usual while the Palestinians have been subject to daily subjugation, humiliation and denied basic human rights. It is inevitable that Israel would get bit in the ass at some point, and anyone who doesn't recognise that clearly has no grasp of this conflict.

Truthisbetterthanlies · 09/10/2023 23:40

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bombastix · 09/10/2023 23:41

Yes it's an odd place to visit. Lots of military infrastructure and soldiers around. This is not a society that is peaceful at its heart. It is unnerving if you are used to a cosy life in the UK

NotTerfNorCis · 09/10/2023 23:41

would it not have been a decent thing to do to allow the Jews to get their state back in the 1930s, as a way of apologizing for centuries of dhimmitude?

Er no? 'Get their state back?' Jewish people had a homeland there 2000 years previously. We can't set the world back to how it was two millennia ago. Imagine the chaos that would cause. What would happen to England, for instance?

The whole idea of modern people being made to suffer to 'apologise' for past wrongs is just crackers. Would every culture have to do it? Should Americans clear out of the United States in apology to the Native Americans?

If anyone needs to apologise to the Jewish people, it's Germany, not the Arabs. It would have made more sense for Germany to give up a chunk of its territory.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 09/10/2023 23:42

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Palestinians did that? Or do you mean all arabs are a blob of brown terrorists?

beAsensible1 · 09/10/2023 23:44

User98866 · 09/10/2023 19:24

I agree. Completely horrified by the actions of hamas but I don’t understand why they can’t at least try to evacuate women and children. It’s no use telling people to leave, they are blockaded in! I know it’s war but this isn’t a normal war. There will be such a deep humanitarian crisis, with children suffering more than anyone. I can’t even begin to imagine the horrors.

Evacuate to where?

therealcookiemonster · 09/10/2023 23:44

apparently the leaders of Hamas are in Qatar watching this absolute shitshow unfold on their screens.

there will be genocide, no doubt about it.

it's almost as if this is how it was meant to happen, all pre planned. the people of Palestine never stood a chance. neither did the Israelis who have so far been killed.

ultimately innocent civilians pay the price.

Museya15 · 09/10/2023 23:45

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Truthisbetterthanlies · 09/10/2023 23:46

Ecdysiast · 09/10/2023 23:38

Israel has been complacent about being an apartheid state for far too long. It has been all too easy for Israelis to go about life as usual while the Palestinians have been subject to daily subjugation, humiliation and denied basic human rights. It is inevitable that Israel would get bit in the ass at some point, and anyone who doesn't recognise that clearly has no grasp of this conflict.

Edited

Ignoring the obvious lies about 'apartheid state', etc, your post reads as though you think Israelis deserved to be 'bit in the ass at some point'.

Could you please clarify if you do think that? Are you actually - as it appears - both victim-blaming and justifying/excusing the massacre of 1,000 approx Israeli civilians (and some tourists), multiple rape, mass hostage-taking, door-to-door shootings, desecrating of corpses, beheadings, etc, of babies, young children, mothers, teens, the elderly etc, only 2 days ago??

As it would be good to know how much of a ghoul you actually are??

ketchup07070 · 09/10/2023 23:46

@Haffiana Another issue is that we don't want to make it normal for countries to expel their unwanted native populations, either. The UN still regards Gaza as occupied by Israel, so they were born and live in Israeli controlled territory.

beAsensible1 · 09/10/2023 23:46

White phosphorus is now being used against Gaza.

BigBillyButterBollocks · 09/10/2023 23:47

localnotail · 09/10/2023 22:38

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. Hamas knew Israel will retaliate, and did not bother with protecting Palestinians because they don't give a shit. your point is?...

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But when Israel steals Palestinians houses or shoot them from behind or make children politic prisoners, don't they know Hamas will retaliate? Or only Israel can act like terrorists and we have to justify it but Palestinians need to take it on the chin?

It's despicable to say that "Hamas knew Israel would retaliate", especially when discussing civilians having their water and food supply cut.

bombastix · 09/10/2023 23:47

beAsensible1 · 09/10/2023 23:46

White phosphorus is now being used against Gaza.

Is that true?

Jackienory · 09/10/2023 23:48

You reap what you sow.

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