To not understand what is going on between Israel & Palestine?

[sweetblue]

I know I sound really naive here and I should know what is going on in the news but I don't really know much and I'd like to educate myself.

Can anyone explain in simple terms what is happening between the two? I have seen a few famous people saying they stand with Israel on social media and getting flamed for it. Also Rishi Sunak tweeting the same today.

Do most support Palestine then? Is the "right" thing to do or is there just two sides to every story here? I'd like to understand what is happening but don't know where to start

After WW2, European Jewish refugees were sent to Palestine. The Nakba happened in 1947 which was a plan to take over Palestine and create Israel. If you look at historical maps, Israel did not exist. Palestinians were forced to leave their homes. Settlers took over their homes and Palestinians were made into refugees.

Also refugees were the 500,000 Jewish refugees who were forcibly expelled from Arab countries in 1948, and who settled in Israel. They don't often get a mention, but their property and land was stolen or kept by the countries they were forced to leave.

There are similarities to the partition of British India into the states of India and Pakistan in 1948.

It is also in the context of the other enormous population upheavals that ocurred in the aftermath of WW2. The Germans had to give up Danzig and Alsace-Lorraine, for example.

A lesser-known fact was that the political leadership of the Palestinian Arab population were ardent supports of Hitler (Haj Amin Al Husseini) and fascism and its supporters were somewhat out of fashion after 1945.

I feel very uninformed about this issue and I've been watching news coverage of the troubles in the Middle East for well over 50 years. What I would like to know from those better informed than me is why the Arab countries surrounding Palestine and Israel have stood back and allowed the Palestinian refugees to live in camps instead of offering them new homes in their countries. Did the UK and other rich Western nations ignore the Arab view in the 1940s because it was before those countries became rich and powerful as a result of oil?

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18079996/israel-palestine-conflict-guide-explainer

Untold centuries further back. That's like saying the Celtic nations of the UK should be able to turf the Anglo-Saxons out.

@Libertass , I would go against "Palestine" having a main ally in Iran. That will arguably be true for Hamas, but the PA / PLO are, again, COMPLICATED!

For anyone reading along: Hamas have been in charge of the Gaza Strip (but not the West Bank - or, as Israel would call it: Judea and Samaria - since 2007. The latter is ruled by a PLO (Palestine Liberation Organisation) government dominated by Fateh (one of their political parties), even though the last time either part held elections, Hamas did better. Hence the split. That would have been in 2007. and, before you think "at least Israel is democratic": that is sort of true - but it has also been a democracy in crisis, and their current PM basically needs to stay PM to avoid a prison sentence because he may or may not also be totally corrupt and possibly a bit of a Mafioso (think: Berlusconi but Jewish and still alive).

In the sense of keeping things "a primer - for the rest of us": let us leave it at that!

But, in reality: it IS COMPLICATED AF!

And, again: absolutely none of this justifies either a) abducting teenagers from a party, or killing and raping them or, b) shutting off water supplies to 2m people with nowhere to escape to!

Israel have massacred hundreds of Palestinians, many which have been innocent children and women civilians, much more than Israeli civilians.

I think it’s atrocious for the innocent civilians on both sides that have lost their lives but can’t stand the hypocrisy and ignorance of people that think this is once sided and Israel are the victims in this crisis.

There are only losers in this conflict.

What I would like to know from those better informed than me is why the Arab countries surrounding Palestine and Israel have stood back and allowed the Palestinian refugees to live in camps instead of offering them new homes in their countries.

Because amongst the Arab nations there is a lot of racism and prejudice, and the Palestinians get the brunt of that. It has also been expedient to exploit Palestinian suffering as a stick to beat the Jews with.

More facts: the population of Jordan is approximately 70% ethnically Palestinian. In the 1970's, the Palestine Liberation Organization tried to organize a coup there. King Abdullah I of Jordan was actually assassinated by a Palestinian nationalist. As the British gave the throne of Jordan (an artificial country created by the British) to the Hashemites, it has been vital to keep the Palestinian population there tightly controlled. Keeping the Palestinian Arabs West of the Jordan safely at arm's length in refugee camps has been an important part of this.

Note also: from 1948 to 1967, Israel didn't control either Gaza or the West Bank area. Nothing was done to alleviate Palestinian conditions in either area, because it was believed that it would have been accepting that Israel was here to stay, instead everyone hoped Israel would be destroyed and the land taken by the Arabs.

Talk about cynical.

Yes, although they consider it collateral damage. An American-Palestinian female journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh, was quite well publicised. As was the beating of mourners at her funeral. A 2 year old was recently shot in the head by a soldier, walking with his dad. Many more cases, probably every day. Not to mention huge civilian casualties when they regularly bomb Gaza.

A terrorist group (Hamas) that hasn't allowed elections for 17 years runs Palestine. Their purpose is to destroy Israel. Israel has offered a two state solution and said terrorists won't engage aside to continuously bomb Israel.

Hamas have now parachuted terrorist fighters into Israel to kidnap, torture and rape women, children and the elderly, before parading them in the streets.

Actually I think I completely have that right. These conflicts threaten everyone worldwide. The people holding these grudges are doing real harm. There needs to be a statute of limitations on political disputes. Once the lifespan of the people originally involved has past, the matter should be considered settled, even if the outcome isn’t wonderful. We don’t forget, but we learn from the mistakes of history and move on.

So from what I gather there is really no winner here. What a terrible, difficult situation it is. What would be the ideal solution?

There was never a nation called Palestine, there was a region under the control of various empires including the Ottomans.

The ideal solution would be the dismantlement of Hamas because they are a terrorist group whose only mission is to destroy Israel

And the other side of the coin is that Israel is defending itself from a Palestinian government who have repeatedly stated nothing short of Israels complete obliteration will satisfy them.

@whenlifegivesyou, I think the issue is: actually, there are winners!

Both Hamas and the Israeli government are experiencing a MASSIVE increase in support from respectively relevant stakeholders. Again: I have personal connections, and am just horrified at statements such as:

"Well, they want to drive us all into the sea - so we eradicate them first!" [Actual Israeli friend of mine], and ...

"The only language Israel understands is violence, so ... sad but necessary!" [Actual Palestinian friend of mine]

NEITHER of these people would have been supportive a mere week ago!

it IS horrifying!

I guess to the same magic place that supporters of the Palestinians think Jewish Israelis will go, once Israel has been ethnically cleansed 'fron the river to the sea, as the Palestinians rallying cry goes?

There is enough land for everyone to live peacefully out of each others way. Can’t the Palestinians live in Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt? Lots of surrounding areas are Arab and would have to welcome them in?

Where else are the Jews meant to live if not Israel? It’s hardly a big bit of land. And after being persecuted and kicked out of many European countries during the holocaust - perhaps they could be given this tiny bit of land and everyone can just get on with it

That sounds completely the opposite to what everyone else has said

Once the lifespan of the people originally involved has past, the matter should be considered settled, even if the outcome isn’t wonderful.

In another 10 or 20 years, no Palestinian refugee alive today will remember the war of Independence of 1948 that led to their refugee status. Do you think Hamas will then disband itself, and consider the matter settled? Is it reasonable to expect them to do so?

Israel is going to destroy Hamas and its supporters. This is a brilliant opportunity for them, unfortunately many innocents will die,

Can’t the Palestinians live in Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt? Lots of surrounding areas are Arab and would have to welcome them in?

Okay, let me re-phrase this: "Why can people from Cardiff or Glasgow not just go live in, like, Newcastle or maybe Milton Keynes? You know, like, nice, equally as British places where they will feel at home?"

This is what your question will sound like to Palestinians!

I think I am right here in that many many years ago someone said there are 3 areas in the world where peace is hard to come by because of entrenched views 1) Ireland - which shocked me at the time 2) South Africa because of apartheid and 3) Israel and Palestine.

Can’t the Palestinians live in Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt?

Can't the Israelis live in the USA? Since the US seems to love them so much.