To not understand what is going on between Israel & Palestine?

[sweetblue]

I know I sound really naive here and I should know what is going on in the news but I don't really know much and I'd like to educate myself.

Can anyone explain in simple terms what is happening between the two? I have seen a few famous people saying they stand with Israel on social media and getting flamed for it. Also Rishi Sunak tweeting the same today.

Do most support Palestine then? Is the "right" thing to do or is there just two sides to every story here? I'd like to understand what is happening but don't know where to start

This ! It is too complicated for many people including myself!Just as a human being I cannot bare to imagine the horror for the innocent people being slaughtered by both sides .
I only watched local news this evening because I cannot process the horror 😢

@AutumnWellyBootsandScarf and everyone else sensible here it's so utterly heartbreaking.
I'm in tears every time I see another piece of news about atrocities by Hamas or IDF

Innocents paying the price for the actions of politicians on one side & evil terrorists on the other.
It's desperate

I think it goes back far earlier, to why the Jewish people needed their own land, ie Israel. The Holocaust was horrific, but not isolated. Jews have been being treated horrible and ethnically cleansed from countries all around the world ever since the birth of Christianity.

A bunch of religious and ethnic zealots on two sides won’t accept that matters that happened 75 years ago or even 100s of years ago need to be put in the past. It doesn’t matter which group historically lived in a region

The history of every country in the world is rooted in things that happened a hundred or more years in the past. Think Magna Carta, think Henry VIII, think of the invasions of Britain by the Vikings, the Angles, the Saxons. Think of the Dunkirk spirit, and the drawing of the map of western Europe after WWII. Those are the history of the lands around where you live.

When it comes to lands where you don't live, it's not up to you to decide that peoples who look back at their own history are to be dismissed as zealots and need to leave the past in the past. It's cheap and convenient for you to say it doesn't matter which group historically lived in a region. But it isn't your history you're giving away.

Have Israel also killed civilians?

There is a graphic in the post at 18.52.

@sweetblue, Israel kills civilians on such a regular basis that it does not even make major headlines - and, as for the current situation: what do you think will happen when you bomb the living daylight out of one of the most densely crowded areas on the planet?

Again, none of this is to even remotely justify what Hamas has done - the people on the internet who do just that, in my book, are lacking any any all empathy!

Ultimately the issue is both sides want the land that is the Gaza Strip, and the land that is Israel. There really isn’t any simple solution. The conflict history goes back thousands of years.

Israel was created by the UN after the horrors of the Second World War as a homeland for Jewish people. Palestinians, who are Arab Muslim people, believed that the land used for the creation of the new country was rightfully theirs. Israel & Palestine have been fighting, on & off, over that land ever since.

Palestinians do not have an independent, internationally recognised country to call their own. The areas they occupy, one of which is called Gaza, is poor & underdeveloped. It has a form of self government and is home to a paramilitary organisation called Hamas, who are either freedom fighters or terrorists according your POV, rather like the IRA were in Ireland.

Israel is strongly supported by its main ally, the United States. It is a prosperous democracy with a standard of living equivalent to many European countries. It also has very powerful, modern, well equipped armed forces and nuclear weapons. Palestine is mainly supported by Arab countries sympathetic to its cause, including Egypt & Iran.

In Western countries, public support for Israel or Palestine tends to be partisan. Generally, people on the political left, who see the world in terms of ‘oppressor’ & ‘victim’ support Palestine & people on the right who believe in democracy & free markets tend to support Israel.

@Libertass neat summary

Thank you @Libertass . Very helpful. A succinct summary!

Israel was created by the UN after the horrors of the Second World War as a homeland for Jewish people.

The UN doesn't create states. It recognizes states.

Israel was actually created by the Jewish population in British mandate Palestine, in the Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948.

It survived a vicious war of extermination declared on it by the combined armies of Syria, Egypt and Jordan beginning 15 May 1948.

Armistices were signed with the Arab enemy states in February, March, April and July 1949.

Israel was admitted to the UN in May 1949.

Once again anyone who tells you the UN "created" Israel - that anyone or anything other than the blood of Jews created the modern state of Israel, is incorrect.

It's Zionism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

It's possible to be anti Zionist without being antisemitic. Many Jews are anti Zionist.

If you can, have a listen to today’s emergency podcast from The Rest is Politics (they normally release 2 podcasts a week but if there is a major news story they record a special one).

They’re always very good at explaining things and Rory Stewart has a great deal of experience in the Middle East.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-politics/id1611374685

@Libertass has given a "reasonably simple, reasonably accurate" primer. It is not 100% accurate (e.g. Iran is not an Arab country - also: religiously different) but: If you have no idea of the ME, it should work as a "what on earth is happening - for total beginners".

The Ottoman Empire used to rule the whole area but that fell apart after WW1.
From the late 19th century the movement to have a Jewish homeland grew, not entirely unrelated to the pogroms and other harsh treatment of Jews in a lot of countries.
This was encouraged by Britain, I suspect because Britain saw it as a nice far away alternative to taking in Jewish refugees and immigrants itself. But that's me being cynical, I wasn't there and I don't know for sure.
Look up the history of Palestine, history of Israel, Balfour Declaration, British Mandate etc.

It's not something we're all taught in schools as the British don't come out covered in glory really.

Thanks @Grushenka@Summonedbybees

I’m sure someone will be along soon to disagree with almost everything I have written. It’s that sort of issue.

I would just add a bit more context by saying that Israel’s main ally, the US & Palestine’s main ally Iran are, of course, sworn enemies so the Israel v Palestine conflict can be seen as a proxy for that.

After WW2, European Jewish refugees were sent to Palestine. The Nakba happened in 1947 which was a plan to take over Palestine and create Israel. If you look at historical maps, Israel did not exist. Palestinians were forced to leave their homes. Settlers took over their homes and Palestinians were made into refugees. For over 70 years, Palestinians have been subject to horrific crimes, torture and imprisonment. The people of Palestine have every right to defend themselves and their land. Don't believe what the media shows you. If you want the real raw picture then use sources like Twitter and Instagram where people are posting stuff the media would never post. There are plenty of Jewish people who are against what Israel are doing as they believe the land was never theirs to begin with. #freepalestine

The Jewish people want their homeland back. Which it was before the Arabs moved in to Palestine and tried to wipe them off the face of the earth

The terrorism is funded by Iran and is an expression of the Iranian hierarchy’s wish to destroy Israel and Jews.

There’s a world of detail and history in the background. But the reason for the present deaths and devastation is simple enough: Iran.

@HeidiInTheBigCity That’s exactly what I was attempting to do, so thanks.

If you go back further, the land belonged to the Jewish people. It was the Arabs who were the interlopers

I am curious where the supporters of Israel expect the Palestinians to go? that is where they are from. They don't all have second passports/ nationalities elsewhere. They are just condemned to statelessness indefinitely.

If you are pro palestine or a Zionist be considerate of the fact we are in the UK, and are a multicultural nation. You are likely to have both Jewish and Islamic friends, neighbours and colleagues and your children are likely to have friends of both faiths. I've seen some horrible stuff being said in the media and overheard in the streets.

It's really bringing the antisemites and racists to the surface.