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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Teacher said My child….

299 replies

Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 20:26

So background of this is my son is sen and because of this he has access to a fidget spinner and a time out card to manage his day.

He became upset before bed last night and told me a teaching assistant had come up to him at school saying why did he have it and that he wasn’t allowed to use it. My son despite being under 8 is really good at expressing what he needs and informed her why he was using it ( he was feeling sad and frustrated and this calmed him)

This provision was agreed by the senco in writing and put into place last year. When I heard this I emailed in to remind them about the agreement and that any staff should know about his needs even at the minimum level

the teacher responded via email praising how fantastic the teaching assistant was ( I never questioned her abilities just relayed what was said to me ) and then proceeded to tell me he was told to put it away as ‘ he was using it to hit other children ‘

now and no I don’t think my child has sunshine radiating from him but I know him and he’s never ever done this to any child ever either inside or outside of school and I challenged this .

long story short I asked senco to step in and get to the bottom of it. Two children were spoken too about it and one confirmed my son hadn’t touched him and the other child said he had no clue what they were talking about. They then emailed me to say that my son ‘ was jabbing forward’ at some peers ( the same that confirmed the above)

i asked them if this actually took place that my son was taking a object and hitting children with it whether he’s sen or not it wouldn’t be okay and as a parent should I have not been called to be told so I could help facilitate it not happening again? I received no response to that

second of all the teacher put in writing alongside a lecture on the safe usage of a fidget tool that the reason he was told to put his managing aid away was ‘ because he was using it to hit other children ‘ I’m sorry but jabbing forward and hitting are very very different ( jabbing is still not okay but no physical contact was made )

when I asked my son this he obviously was upset and denied hitting anyone and he was telling the truth.

I really feel the teacher over stepped her mark in informing me of something that is serious but wasn’t actually true

was I unreasonable in the fact I emailed back the senco and copied the same teacher in quoting both of their feedbacks where it clearly shows my son never hit anyone and as a teacher they should be careful and clear when making allegations about any child including mine ?

OP posts:
Original poster
Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:49

PTSDBarbiegirl · 06/10/2023 21:45

Get a grip, kids tell lies. Especially if they are under pressure from an overbearing parent or another child who doesn't want to be in trouble. A kid using any item to jab, poke, flap around at people is unacceptable. If it makes contact it's hitting.... Its likely happening all day every day.

Show quote history

No contact was made - no hitting occoured. If you’re going to put into writing that someone’s child has hit other children then that needs to be factually true. Nobody mentioned flapping or poking or jabbing with . They backtracked do jabbing forward .

OP posts:
Snowinjulyy · 06/10/2023 21:50

Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:38

I hope your child gets their assessment soon. I have no issue with the fact it was taken away I do have great issue with a teacher emailing a parent factually stating multiple children have been hit when no physical contact was made .

Show quote history

Thankyou. The waiting list was apparently two years in my area at the point of referral and we've been on it about a year. My son has an iep in the meantime.

Completely understand why you're upset x

Dolallypip · 06/10/2023 21:50

Snowinjulyy · 06/10/2023 21:35

My child is on a waiting list for assessment but is being treated as sen by his school. I can picture him hyper focused on a toy, jabbing it backwards and forwards, without even being aware of anyone around him. He makes a "ch ch ch" noise when he does stuff like this. It's very sensory, not violent at all.

Yes, it's annoying. I'd have no problem with a TA telling him to be careful or to stop in case he hurts someone, I've done this myself at home. ("Stop or you'll break the telly!" Etc..) However I'd be upset if a teacher thought my child was being violent when he wasn't so I 100% understand the urge to try and clarify this with the school.

Yes- everyone is presuming that he was trying to play fight/ wanting to hit or jab at the other kids.

He might well have been so focused on the toy and his feelings that he wasn’t aware of the other children, and needed to be told to move away, stop doing that thing, put it away for now.

Even if he was trying to jab other kids, that is what the @Millymollymaisy should have been told, not that he had hit people. How is she supposed to try and stop the behaviour if she doesn’t know what behaviour is?!

BandicootCrash · 06/10/2023 21:51

Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:40

I have no issues with the TA removing it. She’s the TA for the whole class . My issue is with the teacher emailing me stating this was done because my child had hit other children. This was not true .

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But the TA hasn't reviewed CCTV footage from multiple angles before coming to a legally binding conclusion. She's likely to have been 3 desks away, seen what looked like a kid poking/hitting another kid, and acted accordingly.

You cannot understand the pressures of working in a classroom unless you've actually done it. She may have been slightly mistaken- he was "jabbing it towards" another kid, not actually hitting him. Honestly, those two things are almost indistinguishable in a busy classroom.

You're picking a fight with no obvious winner here.

AbbeyGailsParty · 06/10/2023 21:51

My take on it would be TA didn’t know it as ok for your son to have it or she forgot. Told him to put it away, he got upset. Teacher has covered for TA rather than admit a mistake was made.

curaçao · 06/10/2023 21:52

Definition

  1. to poke or thrust sharply. 2. to strike with a quick short blow or blows. n. 3. a sharp poke or stab.

OP, you are focussing on the wrong thing.Even if your child didn't land a hit , his 'jabbing' was intimidating them with the threat of violence. You need to be holding him accountable for his behaviour not trying to catch the school out on semantics.

MysteryBelle · 06/10/2023 21:52

UndertheCedartree · 06/10/2023 21:48

I get this impression too.

And instead of admitting they got it wrong they are just doubling down.

I've seen this kind of thing before, as I'm sure have many parents with kids with additional needs.

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I second this.

boylene · 06/10/2023 21:52

My understanding is that they only emailed about it after you had emailed first. Therefore, the teacher didn't have much choice but to put it in writing what happened. so how would you have wanted the teacher to respond to your email?

Verbena17 · 06/10/2023 21:54

I would arrange a meeting after school with his teacher and the SENDCo so you can chat over the things that might better support your DS in class…..so he feels better regulated more of the time and so that they’re less likely to
mis-read your son.

They shouldn’t have lied to you but in my experience it was very common in DS’s mainstream primary and secondary schools. I think the reason for them changing their story is because they maybe weren’t adequately supporting his needs and perhaps the TA hadn’t noticed he was dis-regulated.

As soon as my DS moved to a special school, there wasn’t lying & misunderstanding his needs…..staff totally apologised if he was anxious or they hadn’t met his needs for some reason. They would then ask us and listen to how we wanted whatever it was to be changed and they put it in place straight away. No need for untruths - just automatically accommodated his needs better. Sadly the majority of mainstream schools/ staff aren’t able to support children with additional needs in such a holistic way. There are obviously some very good teachers and very good TA’s but with large classes and much less SEND training, sadly lots of send families do have to deal with staff misunderstandings.

Original poster
Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:55

AbbeyGailsParty · 06/10/2023 21:51

My take on it would be TA didn’t know it as ok for your son to have it or she forgot. Told him to put it away, he got upset. Teacher has covered for TA rather than admit a mistake was made.

This is so interesting as yes he was asked by her why do you have it you’re not allowed it and he said I am allowed it when I’m sad or frustrated . This was why I first contacted them it was then that it transpired to hitting then back tracked to jabbing forward

OP posts:
Mirabai · 06/10/2023 21:55

My guess is, from the fact the TA asked why he had it and that he wasn’t allowed it, was that she didn’t know what it was and took it away, and then had to come up with justification.

Fanlover1122 · 06/10/2023 21:57

You have marked your kids card now. Either get him changed class, or leave the school. Probably best to leave the school and start afresh at a new place.

Original poster
Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:57

boylene · 06/10/2023 21:52

My understanding is that they only emailed about it after you had emailed first. Therefore, the teacher didn't have much choice but to put it in writing what happened. so how would you have wanted the teacher to respond to your email?

With the truth ? We removed it because he was jabbing forward and it’s a safety issue instead of we removed it because he was hitting other children with it ( these children denied this ) no contact was made

OP posts:
Original poster
Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:58

Fanlover1122 · 06/10/2023 21:57

You have marked your kids card now. Either get him changed class, or leave the school. Probably best to leave the school and start afresh at a new place.

Yes I have marked my kids card - this child has a mother who advocates for her child’s well-being in all capacity’s. She also expects while he’s in their care they safeguard him and his peers. They also have a duty to communicate with parents and that communication to be factual .

OP posts:
Dolallypip · 06/10/2023 21:59

PTSDBarbiegirl · 06/10/2023 21:37

You weren't there so can't possibly know. Be thankful it was only the fidget removed and not your child. Parents find it very hard to conceive of what DC can be like at school. In truth DC could be "jabbing/hitting" or whatever behaviour can cause others to be hurt or just plain low level annoying on a daily basis.

Your child probably needs a proper assessment of his sensory needs to find a strategy that will be successful due to targeting the correct need or input for his sensory seeking behaviour.

What has being annoying got to do with it?! You don’t remove someone’s disability aid because it’s annoying however frequently it annoys you.

If he is hitting/hurting other children he needs to be redirected or have it replaced with something else, or be moved away from other kids (for example if he is flapping and not realising he is too near other kids). The school don’t need to lie about it, they just need to say we did X because Y was happening.

Original poster
Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 22:00

Mirabai · 06/10/2023 21:55

My guess is, from the fact the TA asked why he had it and that he wasn’t allowed it, was that she didn’t know what it was and took it away, and then had to come up with justification.

Yes I have emails where initially I was told this , that she wasn’t aware was they aren’t typically allowed . They then came back with the hitting story then backtracked to jabbing forward . They called in the TA and the two other children involved who didn’t back their story of being hit .

OP posts:
Verbena17 · 06/10/2023 22:00

Soontobe60 · 06/10/2023 21:34

I am both a teacher and a SENCo. If a child is using an aid inappropriately, they have the aid removed. An aid should never be used against another person. We use a wide range of aids, depending on the preference of the child with SEN. Actually, many of our children love a piece of Blu Tac as it’s far more versatile than a fixed item like a fidget spinner. They’re forever pinching it off displays!
https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/19/fidget-spinners-adhd-autism/#:~:text=The%20popular%20toys%20known,%2C%20just%20isn%27t%20there.

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The fact that you’re posting an article that reads in the title about ‘relieving the symptoms of autism & ADHD’ says so much! 😩

Dolallypip · 06/10/2023 22:00

Mirabai · 06/10/2023 21:55

My guess is, from the fact the TA asked why he had it and that he wasn’t allowed it, was that she didn’t know what it was and took it away, and then had to come up with justification.

That would be my feeling too.

SawX · 06/10/2023 22:02

What on earth is jabbing forward with a fidget spinner?

Original poster
Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 22:02

Verbena17 · 06/10/2023 21:54

I would arrange a meeting after school with his teacher and the SENDCo so you can chat over the things that might better support your DS in class…..so he feels better regulated more of the time and so that they’re less likely to
mis-read your son.

They shouldn’t have lied to you but in my experience it was very common in DS’s mainstream primary and secondary schools. I think the reason for them changing their story is because they maybe weren’t adequately supporting his needs and perhaps the TA hadn’t noticed he was dis-regulated.

As soon as my DS moved to a special school, there wasn’t lying & misunderstanding his needs…..staff totally apologised if he was anxious or they hadn’t met his needs for some reason. They would then ask us and listen to how we wanted whatever it was to be changed and they put it in place straight away. No need for untruths - just automatically accommodated his needs better. Sadly the majority of mainstream schools/ staff aren’t able to support children with additional needs in such a holistic way. There are obviously some very good teachers and very good TA’s but with large classes and much less SEND training, sadly lots of send families do have to deal with staff misunderstandings.

Thank you for your comment. I have had meetings with his previous teachers and his senco is supportive . This is a new teacher and a new teacher to the school itself . The same teacher told him last week when he needed his time out card and couldn’t find one ‘ there’s no time ‘ things like this is why I’m pushing for a EHCP

OP posts:
Original poster
Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 22:03

SawX · 06/10/2023 22:02

What on earth is jabbing forward with a fidget spinner?

A desperate attempt to try to stick by the hitting allegation

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 06/10/2023 22:03

Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:58

Yes I have marked my kids card - this child has a mother who advocates for her child’s well-being in all capacity’s. She also expects while he’s in their care they safeguard him and his peers. They also have a duty to communicate with parents and that communication to be factual .

Show quote history

I have always had my DC's backs too 100 per cent. The bad teachers don't like it, but the good ones really appreciate a supportive parent.

DuplicateUserName · 06/10/2023 22:06

Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 20:43

To clarify - the teacher emailed me stating ‘ ___ was hitting other children with it so it was removed ‘

both kids said they weren’t touched

they then changed this to ‘ was jabbing forward with it ‘

jabbing and hitting is two very different things

jabbing and hitting is two very different things

Not when you're on the receiving end it's not.

Pancakefam · 06/10/2023 22:07

These responses make me so glad my mother stood up for me when teachers made shit up. OP, I'm sure your son will be grateful for you too

PTSDBarbiegirl · 06/10/2023 22:07

Millymollymaisy · 06/10/2023 21:57

With the truth ? We removed it because he was jabbing forward and it’s a safety issue instead of we removed it because he was hitting other children with it ( these children denied this ) no contact was made

Show quote history

I get that you are really upset by this and feel the situation hasn't been handled well but focusing on the words really won't help. Tbh fidget spinners aren't very effective as something to have in hand to self regulate or gain sensory motor input. The reason for that is they are gimmicky, have edges, distract others. There may be 32 other kids in the class, many many of them with ASN. Jabbing or hitting is inconsequential really because the behaviour and action was problematic. Something had to be done. The TA could have seen that a violent child was getting frustrated around your fidget spinner and may have lashed out. There are so many scenarios and unless you are really knowledable about these environments you can't begin to know. Why not focus on your child's needs? What do you do for him at home to enable him to regulate, what does he use, what works, could you share these with school. He is one of many and a big chunk will have greater needs. Work with the school because ultimately there was a safety issue caused by your son handling the spinner too close to others, perhaps unintentionally hitting or trying to hit.