Teacher said My child….

[Millymollymaisy]

So background of this is my son is sen and because of this he has access to a fidget spinner and a time out card to manage his day.

He became upset before bed last night and told me a teaching assistant had come up to him at school saying why did he have it and that he wasn’t allowed to use it. My son despite being under 8 is really good at expressing what he needs and informed her why he was using it ( he was feeling sad and frustrated and this calmed him)

This provision was agreed by the senco in writing and put into place last year. When I heard this I emailed in to remind them about the agreement and that any staff should know about his needs even at the minimum level

the teacher responded via email praising how fantastic the teaching assistant was ( I never questioned her abilities just relayed what was said to me ) and then proceeded to tell me he was told to put it away as ‘ he was using it to hit other children ‘

now and no I don’t think my child has sunshine radiating from him but I know him and he’s never ever done this to any child ever either inside or outside of school and I challenged this .

long story short I asked senco to step in and get to the bottom of it. Two children were spoken too about it and one confirmed my son hadn’t touched him and the other child said he had no clue what they were talking about. They then emailed me to say that my son ‘ was jabbing forward’ at some peers ( the same that confirmed the above)

i asked them if this actually took place that my son was taking a object and hitting children with it whether he’s sen or not it wouldn’t be okay and as a parent should I have not been called to be told so I could help facilitate it not happening again? I received no response to that

second of all the teacher put in writing alongside a lecture on the safe usage of a fidget tool that the reason he was told to put his managing aid away was ‘ because he was using it to hit other children ‘ I’m sorry but jabbing forward and hitting are very very different ( jabbing is still not okay but no physical contact was made )

when I asked my son this he obviously was upset and denied hitting anyone and he was telling the truth.

I really feel the teacher over stepped her mark in informing me of something that is serious but wasn’t actually true

was I unreasonable in the fact I emailed back the senco and copied the same teacher in quoting both of their feedbacks where it clearly shows my son never hit anyone and as a teacher they should be careful and clear when making allegations about any child including mine ?

I think probably that what’s happened is the teacher or TA genuinely thought he was hitting. I don’t think non teachers understand how much goes on in a classroom - especially at primary. I teach secondary and I find y7 incredibly chaotic. Lovely, but chaotic to the extreme. Further investigation demonstrated he wasn’t hitting, he was jabbing. It sounds like a genuine mistake. No need for anger or vilification. Just remind your son that he needs to use the fidget tool sensibly and be done with it. There’s a huge shortage of teachers. Part of that is because some parents afford us no grace whatsoever, and go in all guns blazing every single time. We do just want the best for all kids. If I’d have been that teacher, in my head would have been ‘if I don’t deal with this, the parents of the kids who were on the receiving end will kick off if I don’t manage it’. Think of how broad the parenting opinions are on here. We deal with trying to keep all of those very varied opinions happy - and the products of their opinions - all day every day. If we keep one parent happy, we annoy another one. Generally, in all aspects of life, going in assuming the best of intentions helps. We’re all just trying our best (you, your son, the teachers, the TA, the SENCO etc).

Not knowing is someone was going to be hit and factually writing that multiple children were hit are again very different things .

I agree with this

Because not every kind of device used for assistance is the same. Some devices can't be taken away at all, or there are severe consequences to doing so. A fidget spinner being taken for a time is not like that and will hopefully make it clear in future that it needs to be used properly. Which is the outcome you want.

In the case of a kid that keeps rolling over others with a wheelchair, or, say, kicking other kids with an artificial leg, if the behaviour can't be stopped they isn't going to have the device taken away, but they will end up excluded.

It is ridiculous. This sort of scenario should be handled the same way as a child who is deliberately stomping on toes or threatening to. You can't take their legs away but you can, and should, make sure there are warnings and consequences for this kind of harassment.

If a fidget spinner isn't being used appropriately, and warnings aren't heeded, it should be confiscated.

Yes, they need to deal with it by keeping children who are likely to be violent away from other children. Disabled people do not owe it to able bodied people to be less disabled for their convenience.

If the child with SEN is purposely upsetting other children with a fidget toy then that needs to be dealt with by moving the child/swapping the toy etc (whatever is appropriate with the child’s level of understanding and control), if he is hurting them on purpose or by accident again it needs to be dealt with-

but if he is using an aid he needs and it’s annoying, that’s not his problem.

I haven't voted because I recognize this shit, from the start of the 'rot' for us around 15 years ago; we, me and ds, mounted the bastions, moved over there and back again, had to fight a few skirmishes more - but amazingly both of us are still reasonably intact and DS qualified and work-ready. Ds just needs a job to match his skills and I need a massage.

But the shit we went through to get here - including a young, inexperienced teacher's interpretation of my ds and my lack of 'parenting' skills which stuck to us like really mucky shit for years.

Not all the dear thing's fault, she was way out of her depth and the 'professionals' guiding her are much more at fault - specifically the County who have finally been called to task by Ofsted and etc.

How do you know that? He might well have been moving it around with no idea that he was too close to other kids.

Teaching is one of the harder jobs out there. FWIW, teachers tend to rather like the pupils with more interesting behaviours. You spend enough time with them to see the real personality and often the glints of genius.

On the flip side of that, most children have a poorly developed safety catch to their behaviours - an impulsivity. Showing how to control that is one of the hidden curriculum skills employed by teachers.

" Jeremy, stop hitting Evadne with your hymn book. It must be frustrating that she referred to your football club as ' a bunch of confused kittens', however if you continue I will have to yellow card you because hymn-book based violence is entirely socially unacceptable. I'm bigger than you, uglier than you and you know, deep down that I am right. Please stop. Both apologise to each other. Nicely done. Both ok now? What's for lunch?"

I think, OP that the teacher is probably on your son's side. Let this pass. Keep them on side!

Be realistic.

Teachers are dealing with about 10,000 issues a day. Your child was not using their fidget toy appropriately or sensibly and so their teacher removed it as they were concerned your child might injure another.

Bit pointless emailing back and forth to complain about the use of hitting vs jabbing. It's just a waste of everyone's time including your own.

If you are really concerned then ask for a meeting with the school's SENCO.

I'm so glad I left teaching.

I guess what do you want at this point? If you want to follow up further you could try to find out what he actually did do, because as the above posts demonstrate jabbing forwards could mean anything or nothing and every poster seems to have made their own version.

Or you could just mentally say okay, we suspect the TA may have made a mistake and lied or exaggerated to cover it, but she's had a reminder that DS is allowed a fidget, and a heads up that she will be called on it if she's not truthful. Chances are it won't happen again. If it's a one off then it's done with, if it's part of a pattern then you have this incident logged and will be more cautious about checking both sides of the story next time.

Could you give him blue tack or play doh instead?

It isn’t actually a waste of time for the child- if the op knows what he has actually done she can do work with him to try and make sure it doesn’t happen again. If she doesn’t, she can’t.

Many SEN children need more repetition, more clarity and more accuracy in their learning-

if I was told my son had hit several children and I sat down to reinforce why that wasn’t ok and why his aid had been removed and I was talking about hitting not being allowed, this is how we use the aid, this is what you did wrong, this is what you should do in future etc and he knows he hasn’t hit anyone he will not take any of that in. He wouldn’t be able to infer that the same applies to jabbing as to hitting or even that I was talking about that incident!

That’s before you even get into finding out if it was deliberate or accidental because of hyper focus on something else!

Even if your son was using it inappropriately, it wasn’t made clear to him why it was removed at the time which makes the removal of something pointless. I would have an issue with a sensory tool being removed without it being explained to the child in a way they can understand.

I agree with this. I can’t believe someone on here is confidently stating that she is lying and to go to the head teacher and governors...! Do people really have so little respect for teachers? Why on earth would a teacher lie? It was likely a misunderstanding between the TA and teacher during a very busy day. The info between them was likely to have been passed on whilst looking after lots of other children and therefore done very quickly. I would assume she said this, then perhaps reinvestigated with the TA or something similar. It’s not great that the wrong information was given but I would assume that it was a mistake, not a purposeful lie as you seem to be implying.

Give people some respect and don’t automatically assume they are awful at their jobs and making things up. No need to go on the attack (although it sounds like you already have).

Even if things are agreed, if children are making poor choices with their fiddle toys then a change will need to be made. It sounds very likely that your son was not using his toy as it should be used. Jabbing towards others is threatening behaviour.

OP, I think you're hiding behind this alleged "lie" about the hitting vs. jabbing. You're using this "lie" as a red herring which now distracts from the fact that your son was behaving inappropriately in whatever way. So get over the alleged lie and accept that he was indeed jabbing and not hitting. Okay... so is the jabbing okay? No. THAT'S where your focus should be, but you keep ignoring it.

Some people are really ignorant of SEN.

I think you are right to be annoyed by the misrepresentation. I can also see the teachers side they are over burdened. But having a Sen kid myself I've experienced them lying to cover their ignorance and it incompetence.

I'd move on from it. Possibly make a complaint about the lying.

Maybe have a discussion (via email so you have evidence). Point out he used the spinner when disregulated so they should have understood his position and considered if he was 'jabbing' why that was. Perhaps school should be putting in more support to help him stay calm and not need the spinner as much?

My boy would use an aid when stressed by noise/people. If he jabs/hits it would be to try get people to give him space. I'm forever educating him on how that's not acceptable to do to others but ultimately he does it because he can't cope in the environment he's in

Yanbu to complain but...

Jabbing, hitting, both are reasons to take the spinner away.

The teacher was in some wrong to opt for the more exaggerated word 'hit' ... because people instinctively reach for the more exaggerated word when bring defensive because their decision is bring attacked and questioned. It's basic human nature and if we are honest we have all done it and corrected with the more factual word after.

She was wrong to say hit. But it's a defensive reaction.

She was right to take it off him for jabbing. That's invading po personal space and harassment. A boy used to do this to my daughter with his pencil and it caused her so much anxiety and stress it disrupted her learning and put her off school.

The school was perfect but their action remains just.

Yanbu thought. I think you were right to complain so they improve language and communication with you in future

Agree, and also think the teacher, TA and SENDCO probably have better things they could be spending their time on than all this excessive back and forth over a non incident

Which wouldnt be needed if the teacher got all the facts in the first place.
Teachers take so much grief over nonsense, they are overworked and underpaid, yes it is a thankless job that should be respected more, but that doesnt mean that when a mistake has been made, they need to own it. It doesn't mean they get to just state incorrect facts about a child.

Teachers in primary have lied/not got their facts right with us before. I did what you did and asked questions when DS’s account was different. Always with uncertainty as it always was possible he was lying to get out of trouble. Each time, on investigating, his account was accurate and theirs wasn’t. He totally lost all respect for the teachers that lied (it was a dinner lady and a class teacher). He never received an apology.

Teachers lie as much as anyone does- and an awful lot of people will lie when they have done something wrong at work and been caught out.

If a teacher or TA treats a child unfavourably because of a parent's behaviour, that staff member has no business whatsoever teaching any child.

@CakeInAJar sadly I have noticed the attitudes on MN by some posters towards SEN. The threads about adult diagnoses of autism and ADHD are horrendous. I'm sure some posters believe that people seek SEN diagnose s and reasonable adjustments in school for their kids just for lols. It makes me want to bang my head in frustration at the general hard of thinkingness out there.

I don’t disagree.... nor do I disagree with the OP, it’s very likely though that the teacher will not be taking it well.

Including MrsMarzetti's post? My own experience at school was that some teachers are fantastic and others are sociopaths who take pleasure in making children's lives a misery. A wise parent hopes that her child's teacher is one of the former group but is also prepared for the teacher to be one of the latter group.

Trust no one is the first rule of safeguarding.