To think that most company menopause policies are an absolute joke?

[JenniferAnistonsHair2023]

I work for a FTSE100 firm, been there a long time. No historical performance issues. Mid 50s, senior role, quite high pressure.

At the start of this year I went down to 4 days in an attempt to slow down a little. I'm menopausal, anxious, permanently tired (insomnia) - you get the picture. On HRT which has helped but doesn't turn you back into the person you were when you were 30.

My last performance review I was pretty much told I'm underperforming. This came as a shock to me as I'm managing a full time workload in 4 days. Was given some areas to focus on which I'm trying my hardest to do, but part of me thinks I'm just not good enough any more.

Decide to contact HR today to discuss what constitutes 'reasonable adjustments' to my role because of menopause symptoms. (We have a policy published on our intranet). HR helpline pretty much just told me that I need to work things out with my manager. Made the point that my manager was the problem and I didn't feel comfortable discussing menopause with a 50 something male with no training on the matter. Still get a 'computer says no' response.

I mean, what's the fucking point of having a policy? I'm losing the will to live. On top of all that I'm asked to do a day of meetings which involves 3 hours of travelling either side next week, with no opportunity to take any of that time back. I refused on the basis that there was a dial-in option and that I wasn't willing to go massively over my 28 hours for the week (there are times when I have to travel when f2f is the only option and that's fine, I suck it up).

AIBU? Has anyone got experience of a workplace where they have a better menopause policy so that I can consider applying?!

If it’s good enough for Prince Phillip in a formal situation then it’s good enough for a MN thread.

If this argument had any rationality then you also wouldn't need maternity, bereavement or sickness policies, all of which are also "perfectly normal biological processes"...you know, all the things our ancestors fought for to try and reduce discrimination?

But then use of the word "snowflake" is a pretty good indicator that everything else said by that ~daily mail reading, GMB watching~ person can be safely disregarded.

OP I agree with the posters who said you need to be more specific about what accommodations you want made for you. And the "don't feel comfortable talking to my male manager" excuse isn't really sufficient- there are lots of things people might not be hugely comfortable talking to their managers about, whether medical or personal but its the role of the manager to manage any discomfort! If you speak to your manager and don't get anywhere then you can refer back to HR/upwards and say they aren't following their policy but as it is it seems like thry are -presumably your policy says discuss any reasonable adjustments you'd like made, HR have said the person to discuss these with is your manager, that's what you have to do.

You really aren't clear in terms of what you want, you want "reasonable adjustments" but you don't specify. You work a 4 day week and are underperforming, but you don't want to do any more work. It comes across like you want a lighter workload with less responsibility and easier work but for no less money because you also say you can't afford to take another job.

If that is what you want then yeah YABU.

As is moaning that your manager is male. It isn't realistic for everyone to have a manager in the same scenario as yourself. Being uncomfortable because your manager is male is a you issue. People with all sorts of illnesses or pregnancy etc manage to discuss issues with their manager without their manager having direct experience of it.

I too dislike the negative attention given to menopause
I do understand many people struggle but it has reached the point that there is now a stereotype of post menopausal woman, being slow, tired and cognitively impaired.

We need to take away the idea of menopause being this prescribed set of symptoms that apply to all women over 50.

I think we need to get rid of the word menopause and simply say I, as a person am having memory issues just now / insomnia issues just now etc...

Dear vs 'sh'' - would you prefer your child said the latter? OK you do you then.

I’d rather my child drank water than wine but it doesn’t mean as an adult I don’t enjoy a drink from time to time. Holding adults to childlike standards of behaviour is infantilising.

I think you're over-simplifying a bit. I work a 4 day week and I DO get paid less - 20% less, in fact. But I don't have a lighter workload - I have a 100% FTE workload. I would like some acknowledgement that I am doing the same work for less pay, rather than being told I'm underperforming.

As for your comments about complaining my manager is male - fair comment and I take it on board. I can see from other comments that it's unreasonable of me to be able to talk to another woman about my issues.

Life doesn't always go on.

Looking back, there were a number of women in my childhood who was considered "the mad old bat down the road" type, that turns out was all menopause related and many lost much of their lives. An old boyfriends Grandmother spent 18 months in hospital and had ECT for menopause. Women would be locked away for the rest of their lives.

Just because something wasn't talked about, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. It's incredibly ignorant to think that. Along the lines of "well, women gave birth with no complaint in the good old days". Yes, and look at the maternal death rate.

A bit weary? I can go a week on 2 hours sleep each night to the point I can barely function. About once a fortnight I will literally have had NO sleep. And no rest because of restless legs / arms. On the previous HRT regime I had my breasts got so painful I couldn't even consider wearing a bra. I have days I can't think how to do any of my work.

But you've got through it fine, so obviously everyone is like you.

I think you're over-simplifying a bit. I work a 4 day week and I DO get paid less - 20% less, in fact. But I don't have a lighter workload - I have a 100% FTE workload. I would like some acknowledgement that I am doing the same work for less pay, rather than being told I'm underperforming.

I wonder if a discussion around the fact there has been no reduction in workload to reflect your reduced hours and pay might be more productive. That’s about resourcing and capacity which would apply regardless of the personal health circumstance of the person concerned. It’s not even a reasonable adjustment - they agreed the reduction in hours but obviously didn’t consider that would mean a reduction in your availability and your capacity for workload.

Ridiculous comparison given that when referring to your 'child' they can be an adult or adolescent. I would not want any child of mine (adult or not) to use this language. I can hold a different opinion to you. It is allowed.

What are you talking about? He used the f bomb!

You posted about your performance review at the time didn't you? IIRC you work in a cut throat industry where anything less than 100% gung ho energy is considered underperforming. And HR were no help then.

Do you think you can stick it out there until retirement?

I think the menopause is a bit of a red herring here.

The problem is your manager.

You are doing a full time role on reduced hours, with a commensurate loss of pay, and being expected to unnecessarily travel to meetings adding an additional 3h.

Why you choose to work reduced hours isnt really all that important - it could be menopause, caring responsibilities, health issues or to leave some time for your skydiving hobby. The point is that they are not respecting your time.

The only way that menopause is relevant tho, is that once all that estrogen leaves your body, you are hormonally less likely to be taken for a mug.

Yes, I think you're right. I've tried to raise this with my manager a number of times and I got 'oh yeah, you're part time aren't you' like it hadn't even registered in his brain. The reality is there's no one else to do the work, so I do it. I'd just like that to be recognised instead of more being piled onto me. Maybe the menopause issues are an aside, but where I'm at is that I took action myself in order to improve my life (ie went down to 4 days) but have ended up in a position whereby it's causing me more stress.

Yes, that was me as well.

This is confirming my preconceptions of FTSE100 companies tbh... You could probably have a much nicer life working elsewhere with less pressure and fewer dickheads around.

But I would challenge why your workload hasn't reduced going to a 4 day week. And how you could possibly be underperforming when you're achieving the same in less time.

And how you could possibly be underperforming when you're achieving the same in less time.

And that right there is the nail hit right on the head. My thinking is that having the 'menopause discussion' is a way to protect myself. It's not a card I'm playing - not at all. I have genuine symptoms and they are the reason why I reduced my hours. If they would just take me out of this 'underperforming' category (because I'm really not - 20+ years of service with no previous issues tells me that), I would just plod on and get on with things.

To people saying menopause shouldn't be considered in the workplace - the alternative is that a substantial proportion of women leave, or take a demotion. Whereas support for a few years could help them through.

This matters because we need more women in positions of leadership and many of them get knocked out in mid life before they hit CEO status. It also matters because many sectors lack skills and sending women off to twiddle their thumbs when they have skills that could be retained is daft.

It also matters, of course, because it can be life destroying to have a career trashed within a few years after building it up for decades. And menopause doesn't last forever, if we're supposed to work until 67 and menopause is about 50 and symptoms maybe last 5 years - leaving the workplace because of it means you miss out on lots of productive years.

Many measures that support menopausal women are nothing to do with going soft - eg if a workplace requires you to wear a polyester uniform that's impossible with menopausal symptoms, wear a cotton one. Or it might mean making sure it's not a 10 minute walk to the toilets because that's no good if you're flooding.

Lots of things that benefit menopausal workers also benefit others - pregnant, older, disabled people. It's madness to just say 'you can't hack this working system set up for men in the prime of life so off you go'.

The problem with your workplace OP is that the menopause policy hasn't been implemented - it shouldn't be a case of waiting for a specific worker to have to push for measures. If they meant it they would have put measures and training in place already. They don't give a shit, unfortunately.

I will not be saying the word menopause at work. Even if I have a hysterectomy (not planned) I'll say I had car trouble

I think you need to go and look up what a hysterectomy is 🙄

Ridiculous comparison given that when referring to your 'child' they can be an adult or adolescent. I would not want any child of mine (adult or not) to use this language. I can hold a different opinion to you. It is allowed.

You can hold whatever opinion you like, but when you force that opinion onto other people, try to police their language and make judgments about them based on a word commonly used you’re doing a bit more than “holding a different opinion”.

I’d also hope that by the time they are adults they’ll have the capacity to make decisions about their use of language, it’s not for me to police them at that point.

I will admit to not having read the full thread (about 75% of it) but to me the menopause is a side-issue here. I know you really wanted to reduce your hours but how you thought this could be a good idea while retaining your full workload I don't know? Regardless of health issues, earning 80% pay for 100% output in a reduced amount of time was only ever going to lead to resentment and underperformance. I once reduced to an 80% workload and pay but presented a plan to my boss for where some of my work could be moved (not just pawning if off on other overloaded people though!). Of course, the time to do this was before you ended up in this situation but you are where you are. If your industry is as you describe, I'm afraid I don't know if this is salvageable, are you prepared to move jobs to one where you start off with a workload commensurate with whatever number of days you work?

The reality is there's no one else to do the work, so I do it.

But that isn’t your problem, they need to allocate work fairly and if they decide there’s no one else to do the work it doesn’t get done and your manager prioritises what matters. By reducing hours and still doing the work you’ve disadvantaged yourself at every turn and not got the balance you badly need. It sounds like he won’t accept a reduction in quality of work in light of your disproportionate workload, so you need to push back a bit.

Are you implying that something needs to be done so that women don't make the choice they want to make?

What percentage of women quit their jobs because they just want to? What percentage of women quit their jobs to start their own business? Should all companies twist themselves into pretzels and completely abandon their bottom line and destroy the morale of the rest of the employees so that no women ever quit to start their own business too?

The world does not revolve around the place where you happen to be standing. If you don't like the environment at your job, grow up and find another job. You do not have a RIGHT to work wherever you want under whatever terms you choose. You should find a company or job that suits YOU, not the other way around.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I am not forcing my opinion, I expressed my opinion, which I am allowed to do. I find it unprofessional and vulgar. You don't seem to like my opinion so you are now saying that I am policing their language, this is simply not true. I dislike their language and I can say so.

Yes I am sure that when your kids are adults you would love them to come home and speak to you with such vulgar words... not.

It's like everything else in life, we are just meant to keep going and put up with it.
I have a physical job, and although l am fit and healthy l am struggling with exhaustion, low energy levels and constant hot flushes. I have told by my manager when trying to explain why my pick rare is not where it should be but he just said X company makes no allowances between a 16 year old and 60 yr old, the standard of work should be the same.

I've got news for you, it absolutely can be.