To think that most company menopause policies are an absolute joke?

[JenniferAnistonsHair2023]

I work for a FTSE100 firm, been there a long time. No historical performance issues. Mid 50s, senior role, quite high pressure.

At the start of this year I went down to 4 days in an attempt to slow down a little. I'm menopausal, anxious, permanently tired (insomnia) - you get the picture. On HRT which has helped but doesn't turn you back into the person you were when you were 30.

My last performance review I was pretty much told I'm underperforming. This came as a shock to me as I'm managing a full time workload in 4 days. Was given some areas to focus on which I'm trying my hardest to do, but part of me thinks I'm just not good enough any more.

Decide to contact HR today to discuss what constitutes 'reasonable adjustments' to my role because of menopause symptoms. (We have a policy published on our intranet). HR helpline pretty much just told me that I need to work things out with my manager. Made the point that my manager was the problem and I didn't feel comfortable discussing menopause with a 50 something male with no training on the matter. Still get a 'computer says no' response.

I mean, what's the fucking point of having a policy? I'm losing the will to live. On top of all that I'm asked to do a day of meetings which involves 3 hours of travelling either side next week, with no opportunity to take any of that time back. I refused on the basis that there was a dial-in option and that I wasn't willing to go massively over my 28 hours for the week (there are times when I have to travel when f2f is the only option and that's fine, I suck it up).

AIBU? Has anyone got experience of a workplace where they have a better menopause policy so that I can consider applying?!

Then they need support for the symptoms they have just like the woman (or man) with depression/rheumatism/caring responsibilities/period problems/ a bad back or anything else. We need policies that support anyone with their specific needs, why should menopause be treated as some special case? Do other issues not matter? Should we have specific policies for any condition ever thought of?

OP hasn't even mentioned it to her manager, she went directly to HR to ask what reasonable adjustments could be made and they quite rightly said she needed to work that out with her manager. But OP doesn't want to talk to him about the menopause so OP is saying what's the point of having a menopause policy? When I'd guess the policy says reasonable adjustments can be made, discuss with your line manager.

Reasonable adjustments are completely individual to each person and each role. There isn’t a blanket list of reasonable adjustments that HR can give her because what's reasonable in one role may be unreasonable in another.

People talking about reasonable adjustments - I recently had to take 2 weeks off work for a pregnancy related issue. Because of laws in place and a policy my pay was protected and it didn’t affect my sickness record. Without this there just wouldn’t have been a ‘reasonable adjustment’. The company rules are pretty black and white. I would essentially have been discriminated against for being a pregnant woman. I just don’t understand how you can say these policies sideline women when they help us be equal. Like I said before how is suffering in silence when your male colleagues aren’t making you equal to them? You aren’t. Having policies in place - yes even a menstruation policy where you can have access to sanitary products, helps women to stay in work and achieve in work.

My final comment on this subject is that if men went through childbirth, periods and menopause there sure as hell would be comprehensive support in place for them.

Like anything in life, some women sail through with no issues others have a torrid time of it.

And this is the difference in opinion. There is a policy. The op simply needs to discuss with her manager what reasonable adjustments she requires and why. This is reasonable. She has not done this.

the point women are making is we don’t all need this. Millions neither need it or wish it.

it sets women back due to its blanketing of all menopausal women. We do not wish to be seen as we are unable to do our jobs and need adjustments because we are menopausal. Or because we are having a period. We want it for the specific issue for the specific woman and for the rest of us to not be treated like we hit 50 and need help to do our jobs . That’s what we risk setting women back.

no one disagrees the op should be able to access support , that’s not what’s being said. At all. But it should be no different to any other employee who needs support due to severe insomnia or anxiety or whatever. They all need help .

pregnancy is different, nearly all women will need time off for appts, it’s for a short period of 9 months, the vast majority of women do not need work adjustments due to menopause which can last many years. So they don’t wish to be treated like they do, but for the women who do then they should be able to access support.

just like men won’t want a blanket prostrate policy where they all get told they will need to use the loo more often and everyone should be aware they may not be able to stay in a meeting for more than a few mins as once they hit 50 they will need to go toilet regularly and need support.

Lord knows that I know it isn't easy, but I don't like the idea that a manager can dodge dealing with a managee's issue because they're a middle aged man.

My forty-something male manager tried to palm me off on one of his other subordinates on matters relating to my pregnancy, but I'm not her responsibility just because we're both pregnant females.

It's part of his job to enact policies. A lack of confidence/capability on his part shouldn't become someone else's problem (and I have had hugely sympathetic middle aged male managers before who had not issue dealing with problems!).

He doesn't know anything about OP struggling with the menopause!

She hasn't raised it with him because she doesn't want to talk to a man about it.

He could respond brilliantly for all we and OP know but he hasn't even been given a chance to.

So I've known this manager for 20 years. He has line managed me in the past and he has NEVER once had my back. I have good reason to believe that he will brush it all under the carpet. But it looks like I'll have to either put up and shut up, or bite the bullet and speak to him. I'm so stressed about this stuff that it's stopping me from sleeping. Which then obviously makes everything worse.

Anyway I'm stepping away from this thread now. Thankyou so much to those of you who have given support, empathy and useful advice.

Have only read OPs posts and a few of the earlier replies. I moved to a new company (FTSE 250) last year and have been impressed with how open they are about menopause and the impacts on work

There have been educational talks on what it is, how it generally manifests, treatments available etc. There were also similar talks for managers on how to help direct reports

We have access to specific medical support around menopause as part of our private health over which is one of our benefits

I am not going through it yet but starting to have some peri-menopausal symptoms. I have been open and honest with my boss but it helps that I have known him for years as worked together in 2 other companies so we have a relationship that means we can be open.

I don’t think it’s taking anything away from equality to have more understanding and practical ways to support women at this time of their life. We fought for rights around pregnancy, why is it wrong to have rights around menopause? Both have impacts on the body that you need to make reasonable adjustments for

And if he brushes it all under the carpet, THEN you go to HR.

That's what the policy is for.

But you haven't even attempted to talk to him about it and then concluded the policy was useless when you didn't give him or the policy a chance to help you.

Sadly op yes, you will need to speak to him if you wish this resolved. You have been given the advice of putting an email to him, copying in hr and making your formal request for reasonable adjustments, what they are exactly , why you need them and how it will enable you to perform in your role.

And likely also what medical treatment you are getting for those individual symptoms to mitigate the impact to the company and enable you to function . Then book in a meeting to discuss with him, giving him time to work it internally before hand. You can ask for a representative of hr to attend or a colleague/lawyer/union rep.

this isn’t unreasonable that the company expects you to articulate the request and discuss with your manager as a first step . If he doesn’t support , he needs to articulate why and you can then look to escalate or raise a grievance if you do not agree the response.

good luck, I hope you find the strength to get the ball rolling.

Name changed briefly as I am sick of receiving abuse for being open about my menopausal symptoms.

I've been struggling hugely. HRT, an increase in antidepressants and mindfulness have made a small dent, but I am still struggling.

Luckily I have an amazing manager who has been incredibly supportive. I honestly didn't know how work could help me, so he went and investigated and came with ideas for me. So, on his suggestions - I have my hours down to 30 hours from 38, and work these flexibly. In theory I have friday off each week, but can make up hours lost during the week if I need to. So if I have literally had no sleep the night before, I can start work later. Or I can finish earlier if I can zero focus. They have paid for me to receive counselling (not started yet). He has a 15 minute weekly check in with me just to see how I am doing. And most importantly, rather than my role being entirely self led, I am receiving more guidance in what I need to be doing - as this is an area I am struggling with a lot due to the brain fog. I'm the only menopausal woman in our company so far, so am hoping what we start doing now will help other women in the future.

Yes I've noticed this happening much more recently. It doesn't matter the subject matter, just give the OP a kicking and mock them repeatedly. Even though the nasty posters have no experience of what an OP may be asking advice about. The ones here saying "I've not started menopause yet but just get on with it you snowflake" 🙄

I agree with this.

I think some women are clueless about what menopause can mean for other women. A bit of insomnia and night sweats is the light end of it. I was terrified I had Alzheimers, couldn't think on my feet, couldn't have discussions/meetings because I couldn't remember names or even remember what I was talking about. Couldn't take in new info at all. My joints were so, so painful and I was vomiting with anxiety, then wetting myself when I vomited.

I know too many women who have given up work or had to reduce their hours, women who lost confidence in driving etc.

And as for those scornful ones who think they've sailed through it - menopause can be the gift that keeps on giving, my Mum was one of those, 5yrs later she started with vaginal atrophy, now she can't be examined and even her underwear makes her bleed. She has constant UTIs, panic attacks, can't drive anymore.

I hope the scornful women on this thread are just 4chan scum. I'd hate to think that women I work/live amongst are so unempathetic. Although I know a few who can't comprehend heavy periods or period pain, so it's not a leap to suspect there are.

It's not feminism to succeed whilst crushing other women. It's not feminism to assume we are the same as men. Equity and equality are not the same thing.

You sound lovely

Anecdotally at my practice my male GPs both late fifties have been brilliant. The two female GPS much younger who have been busy having babies so still fecund less so.

I smile imagining the male GPs are educating themselves fast because of their own wives 😂

My friends son now a doctor said menopause was a couple of lectures during his education

Thank you 🙏🏼 x

I hate all this menopause obsession. Why on earth do you need to have a policy to deal with a perfectly normal biological process ? It's a sure fire way to make women even more a target of discrimination in the work place

Pregnancy is a perfectly normal biological process yet we have policies around that. Primarily to ensure the health of women and to avoid sex based discrimination.

No difference with menopause

You aren’t sorry at all. You could have closed the thread but instead you gleefully stuck the boot in. Why post at all if that was your sole contribution?

Sorry not sorry..Who are you to police my comments? She sounds gross and vulgar to speak in that way and this is an opinion I am permited to express. I am allowed to respond the same as you are, so please just pipe down and have a cup of tea or something.

@SiousieSoo unless we have a vastly different understanding of what constitutes gross and vulgar language, I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I just want to give some hope to anyone suffering while going through the menopause.

I am out the other side, and things do get better. Gone are the hot flushes and debilitating migraines
Hello menopause belly and thinning hair

I feel that my brain is back in gear, and at work I am known for having the sharpest brain on the team (I won't see 60 again)

However, I do feel that there is a danger that blaming too much stuff on hormones - PMT, pregnancy, menopause, is beginning to give women a bad name, and a handle for men to use against us.

You said your manager 'sh**' himself.... Absolutely unnecessary to be so coarse and vulgar. I would be mad with any of my children speaking like this but you are a grown woman talking in this way. If you cannot see how vulgar this is then clearly this is on you.