To think that most company menopause policies are an absolute joke?

[JenniferAnistonsHair2023]

I work for a FTSE100 firm, been there a long time. No historical performance issues. Mid 50s, senior role, quite high pressure.

At the start of this year I went down to 4 days in an attempt to slow down a little. I'm menopausal, anxious, permanently tired (insomnia) - you get the picture. On HRT which has helped but doesn't turn you back into the person you were when you were 30.

My last performance review I was pretty much told I'm underperforming. This came as a shock to me as I'm managing a full time workload in 4 days. Was given some areas to focus on which I'm trying my hardest to do, but part of me thinks I'm just not good enough any more.

Decide to contact HR today to discuss what constitutes 'reasonable adjustments' to my role because of menopause symptoms. (We have a policy published on our intranet). HR helpline pretty much just told me that I need to work things out with my manager. Made the point that my manager was the problem and I didn't feel comfortable discussing menopause with a 50 something male with no training on the matter. Still get a 'computer says no' response.

I mean, what's the fucking point of having a policy? I'm losing the will to live. On top of all that I'm asked to do a day of meetings which involves 3 hours of travelling either side next week, with no opportunity to take any of that time back. I refused on the basis that there was a dial-in option and that I wasn't willing to go massively over my 28 hours for the week (there are times when I have to travel when f2f is the only option and that's fine, I suck it up).

AIBU? Has anyone got experience of a workplace where they have a better menopause policy so that I can consider applying?!

That's a 'story' highly misrepresented by the media and posters here. Men aren't being offered a year off for 'male menopause' in the NHS.

I agree with this. I have to concede I haven't gone through it yet (I'm so ready, I'm 51, I'm so tired of periods!). Menopause, pregnancy, puberty, these are not illnesses. It's LIFE. You get through it. Some women have extreme symptoms, and those women should be treated with respect and dignity, as everyone should be, but I do get the sense that there are a lot of women just looking for an excuse to be coddled. "Snowflake" is an apt description. It's kind of insulting to the women who DO have extremely debilitating symptoms.

And HEAR, HEAR for wanting to be treated as an equal. Equality means being equal all the time. If you're constantly asking for concessions and coddling because you're a woman, then you're not equal. It makes it harder for the rest of us when women are constantly whining "it's not fair" while asking for time off and special accommodations for every little thing.

OP has explained her specific need (demand) twice: she doesn't want to speak to a male manager who is untrained. That is the start and possibly the end of what she wants. The first reasonable adjustment OP wants is someone female & trained (or maybe just female, not sure) to talk to.

Is he a manager or not? does he need training in every employee need in order to accommodate them? Is it reasonable to expect or demand that training for each condition, or is it just a menopause requirement?

What if OP gets someone trained & female to talk to and arrange additional adjustments with, does anyone have to explain to her actual male line manager why OP had those adjustments (& maybe to OP's colleagues, too)? Would it be the duty of the female trained staff member to explain to the colleagues & line manager why OP had those adjustments (which presumably aren't necessarily available to anyone else?)

I'm not sure that what OP wants is best or reasonable.

What reasonable adjustments are you asking for? And how long for? Long term? Permanent?

Will the OP's insomnia or anxiety get better? From an HR point of view, if an employee can't perform their role long term, that is an issue.

A pp, redcess says to OP:

"If it were me I would set out in a really clear email what the issues you are having are, and what adjustments you would like making to your role. "

Many posters have asked if she's already sent her current male manager an email detailing the symptoms and suggesting adjustments. Until she can verbalise it, the manager will claim he hasn't be approached. Which he hasn't.

My company has a relatively new buy excellent menopause policy... in theory.
In practice I am the only woman with a male manager so we've never had the conversation

No help on this I’m afraid. But at least you have some sort of policy. My workplace talks about menopause and pregnancy without mentioning the word “woman” or “female.”

When my kids were young, I dropped to 4 days. I didn't get a drop in workload and just packed more into 4 days. I noticed an attitude of resentment develop. People perceive you to be slacking, even if you maintain productivity.

Unfortunately it persists even when you go back to full time again.

I moved jobs, full time and I have a reputation for high productivity.

Can guarantee if I dropped to 4 days again, same would happen. I've seen it happen to others.

It's not rational, but we are all just great apes.

Manager might feel the 4 days is reasonable adjustment.

10% of women, according to one study, quit their job because of menopause. This means more will have considered it.

Acceptable?

Some people on here are having a difficult time understanding that equal does not always mean the same. Women are not the same as men and so might need different things to help support them in the workplace. The reason we didn’t have equality in the workplace is because of things like childbearing but there are now policies in place to protect women and help them continue in work. The same is true of the menopause.
I have to admit as a 30 something year old woman I didn’t have much knowledge of the menopause because older women in my workplace and even my own mum didn’t really talk about it. It was like some kind of secret club you had to go through when the time came! I’m glad women are talking more freely about periods etc and I hope the same happens with menopause. I took the time recently to ask specifically what the menopause actually entails and was shocked by the range of experience women go through - some sail through, some really have terrible symptoms. I think having policies around it can only be a good thing for equality to be honest and to help women achieve in the workplace. It’s not about having to struggle through in silence - that doesn’t make you equal to men.

For some women, menopause can be debilitating.
Not all women sIl through it or can take HRT

Will the OP's insomnia or anxiety get better? From an HR point of view, if an employee can't perform their role long term, that is an issue.

This is part of why meno policies are needed - lots of companies have policies where if you have more than 5 separate absences in a year, it triggers investigation. This shouldn't happen if you're known to be pregnant or have a disability, and menopause would normally also be exempted in places with a policy.

Women of menopause age are one of the biggest demographics in the workplace. Those who suffer debilitating symptoms, which can include insomnia, anxiety, brain fog, may end up quitting, with employers losing all that experience and knowledge, and then it becomes an economic problem, and people do care about money.

It’s clear this is a very contentious subject.

a lot of women feel, as evidenced by the thread, there should be no special allowance made for “all menopausal women” emphasising the word all.

just like there should not ne for all women on their period. It sets us back in the workplace where employers may think we get to a certain age and can no longer perform as expected in our jobs and we all need help or allowances made for us.

but that doesn’t mean we feel that there should be no special allowance for any menopausal woman.

what we do feel is if an individual woman is suffering with certain issues , ( plenty do, but millions dont). Then there should be help available. But that should be no different to if you’ve issues at any other time.

so if you suffer from anxiety then there should be both medical support from your gp and if you need it an adjustment at work. Same for insomnia. Or any other symptom some one is struggling with so much they need both medical support and adjustments at qork

The issue is saying all women need this. And focusing on all menopausal women. Just like we don’t all need time off when we have a period. But some do. We don’t all need it for menopause, and we don’t all want it and we do not wish to be singled out in the workplace that we hit 50 we are now a performance risk who requires special treatment.

tnats the issue. So the op needs to follow policy and explain what symptoms she is receiving medical treatment for, what impact it has on her and what reasonable adjustments she requires for that to her manager. It’s a reasonable first step.

yes that’s going to be hard if he’s just given her a poor review and stated she’s underperforming to immediately go back and say it’s because of the menopause and she needs reasonable adjustments to continue, I understand her reticence there, but she will need to do this. Detailing it on an email is a good first step, copying in hr and then setting up a meeting to discuss it with her manager.

i wish her the best of luck and hope whatever she’s requesting from her employer she is granted.

You can add to that dysmenorrhea - women who think it is just a few cramps while others are passing out in pain, often with undiagnosed conditions such as endometriosis or adenomyosis.

They survived by taking valium. My mother's generation in particular were dosed up to the eyeballs with it.
My mil symptoms were so bad that she never left the house again from the age of about 50 and couldn't even go to her own son's wedding

My fundamental problem is that I don't have a manager who I feel I can approach about this stuff. I'm uncomfortable talking about it with someone who just doesn't get it. I've lost all confidence at work

If you can't/won't/feel uncomfortable talking about it then how can it get resolved? Everyone experiences the menopause differently so you need to be specific about what you what/need because a blanket company policy can't be tailored to the needs of individuals.

@JenniferAnistonsHair2023 , i hope you're not too bruised from this thread, some posters have been brutal but there's probably a grain of truth in every one. Your problem is your manager, he has no awareness and sounds like he doesn't want to know. And you presumably feel awkward discussing this with someone who stand behind a policy they can't even pay lip service to.

So what's the answer?? I actually don't know. We seem to be the generation who will pave the way for 20 somethings to have an easier time of all this...hopefully 🤞
But in the meantime, you have discovered hrt isn't a magic pill and workplaces (and mumsnet) don't necessarily give you the support you are craving just now. Unless you have the energy and commitment to meet your boss head on, its going to be a difficult road to climb.

I wish you luck and hope other posters with better knowledge than me help you here.

I’m in similar position with menopause. I’m looking for work at the moment and think I’ll need to take part time or a much less stressful position/lower paid due to menopause symptoms. It’s not ideal but needs must. Brain fog, insomnia all sorts and hrt doesn’t solve it all and it’s hard v hard.
4 days I don’t think works I’m looking for 3 days part time…or a lower level job 😏

Right. Anyone else pretty much over how MN has become a place where instead of trying to help and support posters, who are usually women, posters now fall all over themselves to ridicule, mock, and deride those asking for help? On literally any topic.

I agree. If you are unfortunate and experience really debilitating symptoms then you need to ask
for reasonable adjustments, but all this ‘awareness’ just gives a mechanism for women to be sidelined ‘legitimately’. Many women experience only mild, temporary issues .

Me to. What I hate more is menstruation policies. All this stuff is setting women back at work.

I am lobbying my work to bring in a miscarriage and fertility policy, they are so obsessed with menopause policy etc. miscarriage far more warrants a policy, it’s a traumatic and life changing experience

No, we're not all the same. But if we want to be taken seriously, we just need to crack on with it. If there is something really debilitating then - like a man - we need to consult a medical professional and take whatever steps we can to put it right.

You don't find many self-employed women using periods or the menopause as a reason to work less.

I am mid 50s
I work in a male dominated industry
Before menopause, I was pretty even tempered
Now I have no patience for xxxx
I have experienced a variety of symptoms including sweats, insomnia, skin crawl for a few years etc
Now I have zero tolerance for other people in the team getting away with everything !

However, as far as I can see there is absolutely nothing that my work place can do to make my life better at work. There has been a company wide memo.

What exactly are you expecting your company to do for you ?
Allow you extra days off sick ?

I have had to "keep calm & carry on"

I think there may be two separate issues you need to tackle

First - 4 day week. Have you agreed with your Manager a scaled back workload and objectives to ensure you are being assessed against the work volume you are being paid for. Make sure you are being assessed at targets that are 80% of previous ones.

Second - menopause, you have to be your own advocate, your manager probably won’t have a clue. What would actually make a difference to you? Later starts? More working from home, longer lunch break so you can have a nap? Think about what would make a difference then go and ask your manager for a referral to HR/OT to discuss the following reasonable adjustments in-line with the menopause policy.
Think also about what you can do to help yourself. I am mid 50s in a high pressure industry. I find I have to be a lot more organised and write more notes etc so I am not just relying on my brain. I am reducing clutter in my life and my work and trying to systematise as much as I can.

Like others I am slightly concerned that menopause could be used as an excuse to marginalise older women workers but there does need to be a common sense approach. In my view it needs to be viewed as a health issue not a women’s issue.

For anyone interested in what good support for women suffering from debilitating peri menopause and menopause symptoms looks like. This is a really good piece you could use to inform a discussion with HR. https://theconversation.com/how-to-design-menopause-leave-policies-that-really-support-women-in-the-workplace-209282?utmmedium=email&utmmcampaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20September%2013%202023%20-%202734527646&utmcontent=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20September%2013%202023%20-%202734527646+CIDD3772e3b83bb45c03405c11d99375163b&utmsource=campaignnmonitoruk&utmmterm=How%20to%20design%20menopause%20leave%20policies%20that%20really%20support%20women%20in%20the%20workplace