To think that most company menopause policies are an absolute joke?

[JenniferAnistonsHair2023]

I work for a FTSE100 firm, been there a long time. No historical performance issues. Mid 50s, senior role, quite high pressure.

At the start of this year I went down to 4 days in an attempt to slow down a little. I'm menopausal, anxious, permanently tired (insomnia) - you get the picture. On HRT which has helped but doesn't turn you back into the person you were when you were 30.

My last performance review I was pretty much told I'm underperforming. This came as a shock to me as I'm managing a full time workload in 4 days. Was given some areas to focus on which I'm trying my hardest to do, but part of me thinks I'm just not good enough any more.

Decide to contact HR today to discuss what constitutes 'reasonable adjustments' to my role because of menopause symptoms. (We have a policy published on our intranet). HR helpline pretty much just told me that I need to work things out with my manager. Made the point that my manager was the problem and I didn't feel comfortable discussing menopause with a 50 something male with no training on the matter. Still get a 'computer says no' response.

I mean, what's the fucking point of having a policy? I'm losing the will to live. On top of all that I'm asked to do a day of meetings which involves 3 hours of travelling either side next week, with no opportunity to take any of that time back. I refused on the basis that there was a dial-in option and that I wasn't willing to go massively over my 28 hours for the week (there are times when I have to travel when f2f is the only option and that's fine, I suck it up).

AIBU? Has anyone got experience of a workplace where they have a better menopause policy so that I can consider applying?!

@Hbh17 Women are at a disadvantage to men because of menopause, it is something pretty much all women will go through and men do not have an equivalent that affects their health at a certain point in life for such a prolonged period of time. Yes some women will be fine and not have many symptoms but this is not the case for all. The policy is mean to help prevent discrimination taking into consideration someone’s symptoms and reasonable adjustments that can be made. People are ill here and there throughout their working lives but this is something that affects almost 100% of women.

Yes the nhs are very keen to acknowledge the male menopause.

I’ve had anxiety, depression, insomnia and migraines most of my life. I’m also probably neurodiverse but have never tested.

Do you know what I do? I suck it up and get in with things for the most part. On top if that I’m on antidepressants and take triptans for my migraines. I have one the best sick leave records in my office.

Like others here, as a middle aged woman I don’t want to be relegated to the scrap heap more than I already am. If an individual has health issues or wants flexibility then can work within the existing policies if their workplace to come up with a solution.

Not all work places have them. Its a recent thing.

Totally agree.
I have reasonable adjustments at work for a genuine disability. I certainly didn’t expect them for menopause symptoms, that can be successfully medicated.

You sound as if you know absolutely nothing about menopause. Insomnia? Is that the only menopause symptom you have?

Employers need to recognise that men and women have ageing issues, when you've younger bosses it's difficult to articulate. Men with prostate problems needing to know where there's a loo at all times isn't funny. Nor are the hot flushes.

Someone in the company needs to put together a clear handbook for all.

This is really rude and belittling of women who are suffering with much more debilitating symptoms. I believe it's a step in the right direction to make allowances and adjustments for women who genuinely need some support at a period in their lives that can be very difficult. I appreciate it isn't the same for everybody but I have empathy for those of us who need time and patience to get the right combo of support to see them through.

I think most of them actually have, and either suffered through it or were unaffected. It's the same cohort that were telling us all "it's just morning sickness" and "are you a spoiled princess? Of course you don't need time off for a bit of morning sickness" and "We just got on with it" about Hyperemesis Gravidarum 10 years ago. I loved hearing that in the hospital when I was severely ill. Or those who say, "you got a healthy baby that's all that matters" to women suffering from horrific birth complications.

It's really sad that some people desperately have to invalidate others' experiences to make themselves feel their "struggle" meant something or was purposeful to get them where they wanted to go.

I haven't been through it yet but I've seen some of the generation of women above me (aunts etc) in my family have a really hard time with it. I can't imagine how much worse it is to actually try and talk about it with their friends/peers and know that some of the horse shit on this thread is what they're thinking even if they're not saying it. It's so isolating, in addition to the actual menopause symptoms.

@SabbatWheel menopause is not a disability but the symptoms associated with it can be.

The question of disability is assessed as though you are not being medicated - so if I have severe anxiety caused by perimenopause the question as to whether this is a disability is based on the effects I have if I don't take HRT or sertraline.

That said, if the medication works then you probably don't need any adjustments so it's academic. It's when the medication isn't totally effective that you need adjustments.

That's the thing isn't it, it isn't the menopause people need time off for it is the symptoms and if it's tiredness/anxiety or whatever people might need adjustments but not just because of menopause. Personally I found menopause liberating, no more crippling migraines that I used to get every month, so I certainly didn't want anyone viewing me as some special case needing adjustments, I needed them every month for years.

For everyone telling OP she needs to articulate what she needs, don't just expect special treatment yadda yadda:

She is here asking for help in articulating what she needs!!!

So I'm peri but don't have a workplace as I work for myself. However, my main issues are brain fog, fatigue, overwhelm and anxiety.

Things I do / would ask an employer to do:

Flexi working so when I hit "done" for the day, I can sign off then pick up again earlier the next day. I risk making huge mistakes and I'm very inefficient if I keep working beyond that point.

Help or systems for Task management / prioritising - when I'm bad I find it incredibly hard to prioritise and flutter about doing very little apart from winding myself up. Do you have task management software or training you could do? My stuff is now ruthlessly systemised so I don't have to rely on my brain on bad days, the system just tells me what my tasks are.

Regular breaks. Help me to stave off overwhelm.

Let's hope others can start to give you some other ideas that you can take to your manager

People need help/adjustments for various things in life. I think what some people don't like is the idea that we are all the same. I didn't need any adjustments for the menopause I needed for a couple of days every month for the previous 30 odd years. So I'd like to see help and support offered when needed regardless of the reason it is needed. So some women might need it for periods, some might need it for pregnancy, some might need it for menopause, some might need it for rheumatism or cancer or any number of other things. They should all get it.

@JenniferAnistonsHair2023 There's some good info on this link: www.fom.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/Guidance-on-menopause-and-the-workplace-v6.pdf

It might be a good idea to follow the advice from someone further up about emailing your line manager and explaining you have some health issues and that you'd like a referral to an OT.

I'd also listen to some of the Louise Newson podcasts and go back to your GP and ask for a change to your HRT because it's not working. Check out the Human Being Diet (HBD) which is specifically targeted at this age. It's transformed my life in terms of sleep, energy levels and all round health. It's worth buying the books - very insightful.

Good luck. I hope you can get this sorted out.

Wow, there's some comments on here, WTAF?!
I had no idea of what women were going through until I experienced it myself - I have hardly ever had any sick leave & none in last 15 years, still haven't. I think the difference isn't being 'ill' as such but appearing to underperfom etc, without even being able to pinpoint why exactly.

OP, up your HRT. It's what worked for me, gradually increase it and also consider adding in Testosterone - both gamechangers for me. Also, then consider changing jobs.

What do you want your company to do? And why should someone not be challenged on performance?

woman want equality, but play the pregnant, menopause, childcare card at any opportunity

lots of woman at my work had menopause symptoms of varying degrees, from sailing through to the most horrendous systems, but all accepted it as part of woman’s life, took sick leave when it got really bad, but cracked on with work in the main

so tell work what you want and see if they agree

@SisterMichaelsHabit you are the third person this week I’ve seen recommend to a poster that they should join a Union to sort out an existing issue. As a lifelong union member I’m fucking sick of people thinking that they only need to pay their dues when there’s something in it for them. You can’t do that and quite rightly the union will do nothing for you. Pay your dues every month like the rest of us and they might be interested 🙄. FFS.

I'm afraid I agree with every word of this.

I would also add that I have found the menopause a blessed relief from periods and the sickness and diarrhoea and javelin arse that I had to endure for 2-3 days per month for 35-odd years. Period pain was absolutely horrendous (for me) and there certainly wasn't any "support" with that one.

I was able to get my manager to do an occupational health referral, under the vaguest of terms- that I had ongoing long term health issues. I Explained in detail to Occupational Health who then wrote to my manager with recommendations ehich included advice on setting achievable targets. I'm aware the company I work for genuinely try and support staff, and we can access a a few things (e.g . Physio, counselling etc).

If thar makes me a snowflake then so be it.

Im on HRT and anxiety medication and still struggling. Also hypothyroid. I hope you can get some support and start to feel a bit better soon.

So? You have found it a relief...so what? I had horrendous periods every month and horrendous menopause symptoms. We're not all the same. 2-3 days a month is nothing compared to menopause symptoms every single day.

Im going to be a man and get a year off.
May as well, they won’t take me seriously as a woman do I may as well say I’m a special man menopause

The TUC website has some info about menopause policies. Some unions do, too. You may be able to read some info without being a member, I don't know.

I think it would be worth joining a union. Most unions won't assist with an existing dispute/grievance with new members, nor will they help with a new one within 3 or 6 months of joining (length of time can vary between unions.) But it's unlikely you'll be though menopause and symptom free that quickly.

I don't know how to assess the effectiveness of the policy where I work, which is virgin money but this is what they do. It's been driven by a woman in a fairly senior level management position:

• HR policy exists
• Training provided to number of staff across the business who volunteered, so called menopause champions. There's a page on the intranet with a bio of each and way to contact them. The training is provided by an external provider called hen pecked, who seem to be really good. I volunteered and have ended up being token man as no others did. They didn't specify gender, and I thought "why not" & it turned out I was wanted.
• There's a teams group related to equality, a channel exists there for women to talk menopause with each other. A separate one exists for the so-called champions to discuss stuff too
• There's also online coffee chats organised for people to join
• There's a desire to get people leaders training and more clued up about menopause so they can provide better support, but I don't think it's happened yet

I don't know how helpful it is compared to what's necessary, but it definitely helps some

Relying on GPs alone seems to not be the best idea. I forget the exact figure but they get hardly any training, and there's lots of bad experiences reported by women. My friend's was useless for health issues that frightened her, it's almost certainly peri-menopause and he totally dismissed it, like not even doing either of the two different ways to diagnose. There's worse stories out there.

There's some shocking stats on the number of women who consider quitting work, and those who actually do, because of menopause. Any preventable resignation is unacceptable, surely?

I've never heard of menopause policies. I can't imagine asking off work because of menopause, but I haven't actually started it yet, so I reserve the right to change my attitude about it when I get there.