Friend won't leave kids for a few days with husband

[Whattodo17xx]

My friend and I are mid 30's. She is married with two kids. I'm getting married next year (no kids). Been friends since we were 8!

I am having a very low key wedding, max 16 people and would like to go away with my friend for 1-2 nights somewhere like Paris instead of a hen do next year. Just us two. Her kids will be 7 & nearly 3. Her husband works full time from home. I suggested going away Fri-Sun over the school holidays.

She has basically said no because her youngest wouldn't cope that long without her.

Is this normal for women not to want to leave their kids at this age? Having no kids it seems OTT to me but then again, I don't know what it's like.

AIBU to think she could easily have a few days away with me with a years notice?

@Escapetofrance

do children have to like everything though? Surely it’s good for them to see their parents have a life outside of the home, that they can cope for a couple of days with just mum or dad and that they get to see that their parent will always come back. All normal, healthy stuff.

Exactly.

It’s also important to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around them. Other peoples wants and needs matter too.

This may be true, but doesn't mean parents shouldn't go away if they want to. Yes i am a mum but i am also my own person outside of that, everything i do doesn't have to be with my 'mum hat on'. And women shouldn't be made to feel bad for going out with friends, taking a trip, working away etc.

Exactly, it's good for children to see their parents having a life outside of being 'just a parent'
I've no doubt that my DS misses me when I go away but it's not doing him any harm. In fact, he loves that my job involves travel as occasionally I get to take him with me and he gets to see/experience other countries.
He also sees me and DH go out/away with friends or away together - which is healthy and hopefully something he will replicate in his relationships when he's older.

It's irrelevant whether you, or strangers on the internet think it's normal. She has said no, that is her answer which you should accept, not debate on the internet with strangers.

No one is obligated to spend hundreds of pounds on a weekend away just because you are getting married especially in the current economic climate

This is really important, especially if you have daughters.

If a mother spends all her time with her young daughters, sacrifices her career to bring them up, to help them with their homework, take them to their extra-curricular activities, never goes out with her friends or away for the weekend because her daughters come first, what happens when those daughters grow up? What is the point of giving your daughters all your time and all the opportunities you can possibly give them if the message they're getting is that as soon as they have children of their own their lives must become all about being a mother?

Of course spending time with your kids and supporting them with school and hobbies and everything is vitally important. But it is equally important for their dad to do these things. And if their dad is an equal parent, their mum should be able to have some time off for herself occasionally, meaning that those daughters will grow up expecting that they should always be able to have time for themselves.

Obviously all of this is much harder if the dad isn't around, or if he is around but refuses to pull his weight. But the OP's friend has a husband who was telling her it was absolutely fine for her to go out for a childfree dinner and yet she brought her child along anyway. So what if the kid was running rings round dad at bedtime? There's only one way for dad to learn to deal with it.

"i'd never leave my child for a night at that age"
I bet that's making all the separated parents who share over nights with their ex feel great!!

Luckily all my friends, without exception, are more than happy to leave their children, any ages, with their fathers to go out for dinner/competitions/events so it's not something i've had to negotiate.

I have two children 3 and 1. On the rare occasion my 3 year old stays out for the night, I’m there at the crack of dawn the next day to pick him up.
A lot of mothers do not like to leave there children and it’s no one else’s place to say whether it’s normal or not. Your not her, they’re not your children.

@pidge93

what a shame you couldn’t have enjoyed a lie in! You need to treat yourself!

Surely the whole point of an overnight stay is the lie in! Especially at that age?!

It's interesting isn't it, I wonder how much our experiences with our own parents affect our views in regards to stuff like this- a lot I expect!

My mum would go out when we were little and although I did sometimes get upset we'd have fun with dad and now those are some of my most cherished memories- vice versa too, when dad would go out we would be fine with mum and have a good time. In hindsight for me personally I realise the importance of keeping those friendships and doing stuff for yourself as a person as well as just being a parent all of the time; it's something I've found important for me. I love playing netball, love seeing friends, love going out just me and DH and love DS and being a parent. It's what works for you isn't it.

Again: why is a woman who wants to be with her children regarded as a martyr?

As I said upthread, I could have gone on any number of trips away when my children were young. I chose not to, because I was happier when I was with my children, and so were they. How does this make me a martyr?

(I also said that people should stop sniping at one another for doing things in a way that isn't 'their' way, and it's fine to go away, and it's fine not to go away).

Some mums find it easy to leave kids for a weekend, others find it very difficult. Most are in the middle, but there may be other factors, she may feel guilty that the trip would take money away from family holiday budget or use up leave from work that she needs for childcare/family time. Lots of reasons why she feels she can’t do it. I would ask what she can do, and go from there? It may be that she would be happy to do a 1 night trip?

I wake up early regardless so I may as well go collect my child. He doesn’t like staying out (although he’s fine once I’ve left) so it’s a very rare occasion so I make sure I collect him early. I look forward to the days where they enjoy sleep overs and I can get a few hours uninterrupted sleep 😅

As the childless ‘friend’ I too lost friendships over this. Because a friendship is a two-way street. You don’t get to have your friend’s support you and give you their time and effort if you don’t reciprocate and listen to their needs within the friendship.

I am now a mother.
I still think these ‘friends’ were being unreasonable and pretty selfish at times. There’s too many people with kids expecting their childless friends to bend-over backwards without making at least minimal effort to maintain a friendship.

I can see both sides of this.
Could you try to make it easier for her to say yes by making it one night in Paris instead of two- or even a day trip if you happen to live in london or near an airport?!

pp was responding to a ridiculous comment.

Generally, I don't think it makes the average mother who doesn't want to leave her child a martyr but there can absolutely be an air of judgement which implies that mothers have to give absolutely everything up once they become mothers or they are apparently selfish, self absorbed, emotionally stunted divas who don't enjoy their children according to some on this thread.

You sound like a good friend. How wonderful it would be to go to Paris without little kids for two days!
She will kick herself if she turns the opportunity down.

You did the right thing and asked your friend early.
She will consider the options and hopefully will be able to enjoy the trip.
Her husband should be encouraging her and he has a year to perfect handling the two kids for a weekend without Mum. Maybe they'll think of inviting a grandparent over as extra support.

For me, I would leave my kids at home with their Dad for the occasional one night in hospital or whatever but I always thought of them and missed them enough to be glad to be home. Those feelings alone would not stop me from taking an essential trip alone or with just one child.

@1HappyTraveller I broadly don't disagree with you that there are examples of that posted on here regularly enough. In my case it was more that where I lived was too far for people to come and visit us (fair enough, I never once even commented on that) but it wasn't so far that I couldn't be moaned at every time I didn't pop over for dinner/drinks of an evening when I had small baby/was then also pregnant/had small baby and toddler, with little family support available and a partner that worked away a lot. I suppose the devil is in the detail in every case.

When I had 2 children under 5, I never wanted to leave them overnight to go out with friends. These friends were childless, so thought I'd love the break. But I just would miss them too much.

She has 2 children now, which is more complicated than having only 1, and if I’m reading rightly, the youngest is only 1 year old at the moment (will be 2 at time of proposed trip)?

So she’s still right in the thick of it, getting used to dealing with a toddler and older child and adjusting to family life as a 4. So you can’t really say it is “getting worse as they get older”. She has a tiny toddler! Of course it seems like they are all m-consuming at the moment.

It will be better once the younger one is 3 or 4 and easier to get to bed. Some kids are more chilled than others. Some won’t settle without their mum and an evening out when you know your child is crying and miserable at home just isn’t going to be enjoyable.

If you care about and value your friend then trust and respect that she is making the best decisions for her child and don’t take it personally.

If she can’t even manage a night out without them then I wouldn’t bother aiming for a night away. I understand that it’s disappointing for you but some mum’s can’t leave their kids. Nothing wrong with talking to her and explaining that you miss her. Ask if she can manage a night out somewhere but go home at end of night. Say you would like it to be just you and her.

The eldest is 7 and the younger one is currently 3.

@fuacks

Again: why is a woman who wants to be with her children regarded as a martyr?

As I said upthread, I could have gone on any number of trips away when my children were young. I chose not to, because I was happier when I was with my children, and so were they. How does this make me a martyr?”

if you genuinely never wanted to go on trips and never wanted to see your friends ever then you wouldn’t be a martyr. But vast majority of people do want to do those things. So not doing them if they want to just cos they think they shouldn’t due to old fashioned and patriarchal beliefs about motherhood absolutely does make those women martyrs.

My children are quite a bit older and no way would I leave them and go to another country for a couple of days. Absolutely not. I'd miss them, they'd miss me. I wouldn't enjoy it because I'd want to show them the sights. I am happiest when I'm with my children and DH. If I'm spending hundreds on a weekend away, it's going to be spent with them!
Leaving your 3 and 7 year olds and buggering off to Paris with your friend. That might be normal for some people, but it's definitely not to me. I personally think it's self centred to expect her to leave her young children like that.

🙄