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12
Exasperatednow · 01/10/2023 10:35

My neice recently moved away from Texas for this reason.

Passepartoute · 01/10/2023 10:35

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:29

I understand we have different view points but surely you know the answer to your question is no.

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Can you explain why? If a foetus has a right to life, why do you say we have to protect that right only in relation to abortion and not anything else?

Passepartoute · 01/10/2023 10:40

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:35

I’m not in the area of mental health legislation to give you an answer abut the strategic and structural implementation of pregnancies.

Just like I can’t tell you how we solve the national debt to take care of babies being born to women wanting abortions. I’m sure there are many qualified people to answer these questions. But one thing I do know is that the answer isn’t murdering babies

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That really is a cop-out. You claimed that the suicidal woman could be supported to continue the pregnancy. You can't just shrug your shoulders and say you have no idea how that could be achieved.

The reality must be, mustn't it, that if a woman in that situation is absolutely determined to commit suicide, she can only be kept alive and made to continue the pregnancy by sectioning her and having a watch kept on her night and day? Is it acceptable in those circumstances to force the woman to continue with her pregnancy even though it will irreversibly ruin her mental health?

SerendipityJane · 01/10/2023 10:41

Exasperatednow · 01/10/2023 10:35

My neice recently moved away from Texas for this reason.

US military will also transfer personnel affected. And reduce funding to states that have similar laws making them even poorer than they are now.

Passepartoute · 01/10/2023 10:41

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:27

Yes

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Is that still the case if the baby's condition is such that their life will be short but agonising?

FrangipaniBlue · 01/10/2023 10:45

BiscuitsandPuffin · 30/09/2023 18:56

To be fair, I recently found out what actually happens during an abortion, and I am horrified. I think we should all have open and transparent information about exactly what is happening and how the procedure is done because it is physically impossible to give informed consent without this information, it's disgraceful that they fluff over the truth and treat us like children when we're literally making life or death decisions. While I think this lawyer is going too far, I understand now why they feel so strongly about it.

Edited

NOBODY needs to know the details of what happens during an abortion other than the woman undergoing the procedure.

It is her and her alone who makes an informed consent decision.

Not one other single person has a say.

I'm horrified that you even think this.

Passepartoute · 01/10/2023 10:45

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:29

I understand we have different view points but surely you know the answer to your question is no.

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Sadly the pro-life states don't seem to agree with you. As reported in the link given above, "women across the US have been increasingly subjected to surveillance, arrest and charges for abortions, stillbirths and other actions that police claimed “endangered” their fetuses, with routine healthcare decisions and pregnancy outcomes treated as crimes."

Ilikeviognier · 01/10/2023 10:53

@Babochan88 or what about my situation, where the baby who had a condition incompatible with life was one of a twin, and their existence was endangering the life of their healthy sibling, which may have potentially ended up it’s us losing them both had we not acted?

i doubt you have been faced with this kind of terrible choice yourself, otherwise you’d not be quite as flippant with your views here, believe me.

Ilikeviognier · 01/10/2023 10:54

(Ended yo with us losing) - sorry typo.

Ilikeviognier · 01/10/2023 10:54

UP

MustBeNapTime · 01/10/2023 10:57

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:27

Yes

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You honestly believe that a woman should go through to full term and be FORCED to give birth to a baby who they then have to watch die a painful death anyway? A death that will haunt them for life and may also cause them lifelong physical damage? Rather than allow a medical procedure to allow the child to pass with painless dignity?

You wouldn't allow an animal to suffer like that, but it's okay for a pregnant woman to be put through such trauma?

That is an absolutely abhorrent way to think.

Ilikeviognier · 01/10/2023 11:18

@MustBeNapTime exactly. And this is what would have happened to my little twin - had he or she not died in the womb first (which we were told was risking the life of the healthy sibling too).

Iheartmysmart · 01/10/2023 11:25

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:27

Yes

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You really don’t have an ounce of compassion do you. What a horrible, judgemental life you lead.

pointythings · 01/10/2023 11:35

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:27

Yes

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You advocate cruelty to women. Adjust your moral compass, or better yet, maybe actually acquire one. Your post is disgusting.

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 01/10/2023 11:42

Iam4eels · 01/10/2023 09:00

It doesn't happen. In late term abortions, medication is given to stop the heart precisely to prevent this scenario and they check for lack of heartbeat. In the ONS official report it not only given figures, it also details methods used and in all cases the fetal heartbeat is stopped before progressing to the next stage.

In the UK the vast majority of abortions take place within the first trimester with only around 1% occurring around 20 weeks (which would coincide the anomaly scan that takes place at 18-22 weeks). 0.01% of abortions takes place after 24wks (around 240 a year) and all are done on serious medical grounds. The vast, vast majority of women are terminating their pregnancies at a stage where there is no possibility of a heartbeat outside of the woman's body and for the ones terminating at later stages there are medical reasons for doing so and steps are taken to stop the heartbeat first.

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Ok thanks.

I knew someone that had an abortion at 5 months though for non medical reasons. She was just a car crash of a woman. So it does happen for non medical reasons.

I personally was shocked that the cut off was so late. I always thought the limit was 12 weeks for non medical abortion.

Dontcallmescarface · 01/10/2023 12:00

Whether or not abortion is eliminated, people will always fight for babies to live and not just live, but to thrive and live happy and safe lives. At every stage of the journey pro lifers are working hard.

Not hard enough in the USA though. When the "pro-lifers" demand the ban of guns and succeed in getting it then they can be seen as working hard, but I'll bet you a £ to a penny that many of those pro-lifers also want the "right to bear arms". It seems odd to me that more value is placed on the unborn child's "right to live" than those that are born.

80sMum · 01/10/2023 12:07

The expectation in abortions was that the fetus would dead at delivery but sometimes it was not. If not, it was removed from the parents' sight and hearing into another room

Removed from their sight and hearing? I take it this means that the babies were breathing at birth and started to cry? My god! What a hideous experience for those mothers. I think I would be emotionally scarred for life, in those circumstances.

Personally, I would rather take the pregnancy through to full term, give birth to my (tragically unviable) baby, let nature take its course and then say goodbye to him/her in a gentle and peaceful way.

I appreciate that others feel differently but I just don't think I could ever bring myself to deliberately end the life of my own child. 😢

Dontcallmescarface · 01/10/2023 12:09

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 10:27

Yes

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What a horrible person you are.

My eldest had no lungs..none. The moment the cord was cut would be the moment he would have died. Why would I have chosen that kind of a death for him when I could give him a much more peaceful end? FWIW he was loved and wanted but as a mother there was no way I was ever going to let him suffer.

BIossomtoes · 01/10/2023 12:15

Babochan88 · 01/10/2023 08:09

Banning abortions should definitely happen. The excuse of people will travel elsewhere isn’t a reason to justify it and continue on.

There are many things that have been made illegal. People still do them though - does that mean we make it legal? What a sad state for society if things that are truly destructive to a human become legal.

I was told another pregnancy would kill me. Fortunately I never had one. But if I had are you seriously telling me that it would have be better for me to die than have an abortion? Because giving birth would have been truly destructive to a human - me - leaving two motherless children.

FrangipaniBlue · 01/10/2023 12:19

Regardless of what week it’s at, it should still be protected.

What about protecting the mother? Where does that factor in your ideology @Babochan88 ?

Strugglingtodomybest · 01/10/2023 12:26

I'm absolutely horrified by what I've just read about that US prison guard. It's more like something I'd expect from the Taliban. Although, maybe she should have just been grateful that she was allowed to work.

What a terrible place the world can be for some women. And the women who are complicit in making it terrible disgust me.

Catsmere · 01/10/2023 12:30

pointythings · 30/09/2023 18:52

The US is no longer a civilised country, if it ever was.

"America is the only nation in history which miraculously has gone directly from barbarism to degeneration without the usual interval of civilization." - Georges Clemenceau

Soubriquet · 01/10/2023 12:31

It is terrifying that there are people like Babochan…and that they are people like that in the government that actually change the laws against women.

Abortions are a medical necessity.

Iam4eels · 01/10/2023 12:35

80sMum · 01/10/2023 12:07

The expectation in abortions was that the fetus would dead at delivery but sometimes it was not. If not, it was removed from the parents' sight and hearing into another room

Removed from their sight and hearing? I take it this means that the babies were breathing at birth and started to cry? My god! What a hideous experience for those mothers. I think I would be emotionally scarred for life, in those circumstances.

Personally, I would rather take the pregnancy through to full term, give birth to my (tragically unviable) baby, let nature take its course and then say goodbye to him/her in a gentle and peaceful way.

I appreciate that others feel differently but I just don't think I could ever bring myself to deliberately end the life of my own child. 😢

Except it doesn't happen as the heart is stopped as part of the procedure, no aborted fetuses are shunted off to a side room and left to die.

MrsSlocombesCat · 01/10/2023 12:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I trust you’re a vegan then?