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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this CF, and have I been out of order?

1000 replies

IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel · 29/09/2023 10:32

I don't think I am, but this has caused massive fallout.

A few months back 'friend' messaged me, telling me about a big event she was invited to and if I could help her with an outfit / shoes etc. friend is quite a glass half empty sort of person and has incredibly low self esteem so I've always been there for her to help / lift her spirits and just be an all round good friend to her.

I lent her a very expensive pair of shoes, I drove to her and helped with her hair and make up (she's not local to me) as I wanted her to look and feel fabulous for her event.
Yesterday I asked for my shoes back as I have an upcoming wedding to go to. Long story short she sent me an essay about how tough life is for her, and how ashamed she is, that she has sold my pair of shoes. (These are Christian louboutin shoes that were given to me as a wedding present a couple of years back) I told her that I was really angry at this, they weren't her shoes to sell. Friend went on to say she was under the impression that I GAVE her the shoes, and they were her shoes to sell.
I went back to the original message of when I offered them to her and it reads as follows..

'I have a pair of X you can wear, I won't need them for the time being so you can wear these if they fit you, you will look fabulous.'

From my understanding there was nothing about her being able to keep the shoes.

Anyway, I asked her who she sold them to and they were pawned. I called the store, explained that the shoes were mine and they confirmed they still have them and they haven't been sold on.
I told friend this, and told her she must buy the shoes back immediately.

She's agreed to buy them back, but has said that she will go without food, not be able to pay her mortgage for the month, and basically made me sound like a CF for asking her to do this. She's basically turning this whole thing back around on me, telling me that I could easily buy another pair of shoes. (I can't.. I don't have that disposable money as everyone knows how expensive life is at the mo!)

AIBU? I'm lucky I found the store she pawned them to and I'm lucky they haven't been sold on, she sold them recently and I gave them to her only a few months back so it's not as if they've been laying collecting dust under her bed!

She's now saying she won't be able to feed her kids (who are both in their late teens / early twenties May I add) and is trying to guilt trip me into saying don't worry about it.

The shoes have sentimental value, they were given to me by someone very special which is why I would rather have those specific shoes back rather than giving me the money for them. I guess it is my fault really for letting her borrow them. Needless to say, the friendship (of 15 years) is over.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BetterWithPockets · 29/09/2023 15:35

I suspect she didn’t think you’d ask for them back so soon, OP, and would then have thought she could spin some yarn about how they’d gone missing. (Or perhaps to be fair to her she thought she could get them back before you asked…?) It’s absolutely on her to get them back now though and work out how to manage her finances after doing so. As a PP has said, she’d have had to have managed if she’d not had the shoes to sell, so this is completely on her. (And I’m normally sympathetic to anyone who’s struggling, not least because I’ve been there — but you just can’t do what your friend has done, no matter how skint you are. I wouldn’t do that to a stranger, let alone a friend.) Am incensed on your behalf!

Heronwatcher · 29/09/2023 15:35

I agree with previous posters, order the shoes, report to police, make her pay for them. The friendship is dead so the priority is the shoes. Do not even consider a payment plan, she’ll default and give you this bs every month/ week until you just can’t stomach it and forget.

Tell her if the kids are starving she can send them to you and you’ll feed them.

LookItsMeAgain · 29/09/2023 15:37

Actually a perfectly reasonable response to her message at the moment (until you can put a better reply together) would be "Are you on glue?"

rubydoobydoo · 29/09/2023 15:45

She sounds like my SIL.
Always in some sort of crisis, pretty much always of entirely her own making, but it's always somehow everybody's fault but hers and she always expects everyone else to bail her out! And if she doesn't get the bail-out, it is also everyone else's fault for upsetting her.
She also uses her now mainly adult children for sympathy.

Purplecatshopaholic · 29/09/2023 15:49

I am so glad you are getting the shoes back op. And doubly glad you have seen this CF for what she is and cutting her off. I really can’t believe her actions - and to then say you are stressing her out is really beyond the pale!

Florencefox · 29/09/2023 15:49

Probably the most effective way is to take her to the small claims court, you can even do this by an online process for claims under £10k. Even by setting the process in motion may mean she gives you the money back,

You may have your pay a couple of hundred pounds in court fees, but the process is designed for this kind of claim. I think the police would refer you to this rather than take any action.

www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

Citizens advice bureau give a good overview of the process as well.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

Inkpotlover · 29/09/2023 15:50

IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel · 29/09/2023 15:20

I have no idea. If she ever sees this thread I hope she can see what an absolute scum bag everyone thinks she is.

I'm honestly gobsmacked. Particularly how she's now trying to turn this around on me.

I would send her a short message back, ahead of sending the letter later:

There is nothing complicated about it. I'll be in touch later.

Then mute her until you are ready to send the letter, which I think you should do online but also by recorded mail.

Trevorton · 29/09/2023 15:51

ifIwerenotanandroid · 29/09/2023 15:30

All I can think of as a reason is could she be on drugs?

Not necessarily. I had a friend who was a lovely woman but with quirks, one of which was that anything that went into her house was hers. So if someone left something there for any reason, it belonged to her. She had an odd idea of boundaries. NB This doesn't make it right & I applaud the OP for getting the shoes back. The rest can come later, & it will take time to go through that & to reassess this friend/the past & get over the betrayal.

Her name didn't start with V did it? I had a "friend" like that. The moment she laid eyes on something or borrowed something it instantly became hers to the point she told you where she bought it from. Even if it was highly implausible (say a size 8 dress when she was a 16 etc) she still maintained it was hers. Still, she was a pathological liar as well as a thief so I don't think it was just quirky or weird boundaries as you mention.

Florencefox · 29/09/2023 15:51

Florencefox · 29/09/2023 15:49

Probably the most effective way is to take her to the small claims court, you can even do this by an online process for claims under £10k. Even by setting the process in motion may mean she gives you the money back,

You may have your pay a couple of hundred pounds in court fees, but the process is designed for this kind of claim. I think the police would refer you to this rather than take any action.

www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

Citizens advice bureau give a good overview of the process as well.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money

Anontocomment · 29/09/2023 15:57

Dear god in heaven. You are definitely not a CF for this and quite frankly have been tame in your response.

When you contact her, make sure to include the Police crime reference and also that you are now seeking legal advice. You don't know what else / who else she's tried to scam - at the very least, you need to ensure that she hasn't used either your, your mum or anyone in the friend group's information for any payday loans etc.

Good luck and thank god you got your shoes back.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 29/09/2023 15:57

Trevorton · 29/09/2023 15:51

Her name didn't start with V did it? I had a "friend" like that. The moment she laid eyes on something or borrowed something it instantly became hers to the point she told you where she bought it from. Even if it was highly implausible (say a size 8 dress when she was a 16 etc) she still maintained it was hers. Still, she was a pathological liar as well as a thief so I don't think it was just quirky or weird boundaries as you mention.

No, thankfully that wasn't her. Mine wasn't that bad & was lovely in every other respect, but our friendship didn't survive.

Daffodilsandtuplips · 29/09/2023 16:11

I wonder how many others she’s done this too or pleaded poverty like she had with op and ops family, she’s got more brass neck than the three brass balls above the Pawn Shops have.
I imagine she relies on her benefactor’s keeping quiet to avoid embarrassment.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 29/09/2023 16:17

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:20

OP, I think I would consider writing to the pawnbroker as well and asking for a refund on the grounds that they did not have good title to the shoes when they sold them to you.

Something like this:

Dear Pawnbroker,

On 28th September 2023 I contacted your shop to inform you that a pair of shoes you were advertising for sale were my stolen property. As I explained to you on the phone, I lent them to a friend to wear to an event on the clear understanding that she would return them, but she sold them to you for cash. You confirmed that the shoes were still in your possession, but refused to remove them from sale pending resolution of this matter. As the shoes are of sentimental value to me, I could not risk them being purchased by another customer, so I reluctantly re-purchased them myself for X amount.

Since our conversation I have been taking legal advice and I have learned that you appear to be in breach of your legal duties.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, a seller must have the right to sell an item. If the item in question is stolen, the seller does not have the right to sell it. This means that, having been informed that the shoes were stolen property, you should have removed them from sale immediately while the matter was resolved.

According to the industry protocol for the pawnbroking sector published earlier this year, you should also be taking reasonable precautions to ensure that items sold to you have not been stolen. If you had, for example, asked the person who sold you the shoes to provide proof of purchase or even confirm where and when they were purchased and how much she paid for them, she would have been unable to do so. This should have alerted you to the possibility that they were not hers to sell.

In light of the above, I am writing to request a refund of the price I paid to re-purchase the shoes.

I have reported this matter to the police. If you wish to discuss it with them my crime reference number is XYZ.

Yours sincerely,

@IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel

@MargotBamborough’s letter is perfect, @IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel - I would definitely send it to the pawnbroker.

fr4zzledmum · 29/09/2023 16:22

This is wild, I'd be going straight to the police.

HoHoHoliday · 29/09/2023 16:23

OP, I would think very carefully on how you word this letter, particularly around the payment terms you are requesting.
You want this letter to result in her refunding you, you do not want the hassle of having to pursue it further, and you know she is not wealthy. Her lack of spare funds is not your fault, but take it into consideration and be realistic in what you ask for in order to ensure success here. Can you afford to offer a repayment plan with monthly repayments over three months? Six months? Because when you already know she is not wealthy, asking for repayment within 7 days (as some previous comments suggested) is just not realistic, it's setting up for failing.
I would write something like this:

Dear Very CF friend,

I am writing to you regarding the shoes I lent you, which you subsequently sold to "name of shop".

In my message to you on (date of message) I said "I have a pair of X you can wear, I won't need them for the time being so you can wear these if they fit you, you will look fabulous." It was clear that I intended for you to borrow the shoes on a temporary basis. The words "for the time being" express this clearly.

When I asked you to return the shoes to me you told me you had sold them to (name of shop). They were not your property to sell, and as you are unable to return them to me, this is theft.

I have been able to recover the shoes myself at a cost of (insert amount) and enclose a copy of the receipt to demonstrate this.

I have needed to report this to the police. I ask you now to refund the amount of (insert amount again). Upon receipt of this amount I will consider the matter closed. If you refuse to pay I will be forced to pursue the matter further through the appropriate channel.

The total should be received in full by (add a realistic date) and I would like to receive payment in instalments of (add amount) each month on (add date, 1st of month, last of month, etc).

I am sending this letter by recorded delivery to ensure you receive it. You may also contact me in writing by recorded delivery in order to respond. (Include your address at the top).

Keep it entirely impersonal and factual, don't include anything about sentimental value or hurt feelings or friendship.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 29/09/2023 16:25

You are not in the wrong here OP. CF indeed. And manipulative to boot

FictionalCharacter · 29/09/2023 16:34

IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel · 29/09/2023 11:39

I asked them to tell me this and they wouldn't tell me. Guessing GDPR even though they went her effing shoes!!!

I guess they're under no obligation to tell you, but its nothing to do with GDPR. The price of something isn't personal data.

Figgygal · 29/09/2023 16:38

Just wow!!
Honestly fuck her op get your money back and call her out to all your friends
Flip

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 16:40

HoHoHoliday · 29/09/2023 16:23

OP, I would think very carefully on how you word this letter, particularly around the payment terms you are requesting.
You want this letter to result in her refunding you, you do not want the hassle of having to pursue it further, and you know she is not wealthy. Her lack of spare funds is not your fault, but take it into consideration and be realistic in what you ask for in order to ensure success here. Can you afford to offer a repayment plan with monthly repayments over three months? Six months? Because when you already know she is not wealthy, asking for repayment within 7 days (as some previous comments suggested) is just not realistic, it's setting up for failing.
I would write something like this:

Dear Very CF friend,

I am writing to you regarding the shoes I lent you, which you subsequently sold to "name of shop".

In my message to you on (date of message) I said "I have a pair of X you can wear, I won't need them for the time being so you can wear these if they fit you, you will look fabulous." It was clear that I intended for you to borrow the shoes on a temporary basis. The words "for the time being" express this clearly.

When I asked you to return the shoes to me you told me you had sold them to (name of shop). They were not your property to sell, and as you are unable to return them to me, this is theft.

I have been able to recover the shoes myself at a cost of (insert amount) and enclose a copy of the receipt to demonstrate this.

I have needed to report this to the police. I ask you now to refund the amount of (insert amount again). Upon receipt of this amount I will consider the matter closed. If you refuse to pay I will be forced to pursue the matter further through the appropriate channel.

The total should be received in full by (add a realistic date) and I would like to receive payment in instalments of (add amount) each month on (add date, 1st of month, last of month, etc).

I am sending this letter by recorded delivery to ensure you receive it. You may also contact me in writing by recorded delivery in order to respond. (Include your address at the top).

Keep it entirely impersonal and factual, don't include anything about sentimental value or hurt feelings or friendship.

If she agrees to a repayment plan she'll have to be sending the CF threatening letters every month until it's all paid back.

Better to tell CF to sell some of her own stuff to raise the money and pay it back immediately.

YouJustDoYou · 29/09/2023 16:43

She's a piece of thieving shit.

Newestname002 · 29/09/2023 16:52

If she agrees to a repayment plan she'll have to be sending the CF threatening letters every month until it's all paid back.

Better to tell CF to sell some of her own stuff to raise the money and pay it back immediately.

I'm afraid I agree with this. If the "friend" made even one payment I'd be surprised, and it would be a monumental pain trying to prise more of the money from her, whilst OP was subjected to more whining, anger at being pursued for recompense for something she'd stolen before she then blocked the OP before sullying OP's reputation to all and sundry.. 🌹

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/09/2023 16:52

I've just received a myriad of messages from her basically telling me that I've overcomplicated things, that I'm stressing her out, and that I need to be patient
... This was in response to me asking if she would please buy the shoes back from the pawn broker

Ah yes, stress, the usual go-to when "the kids will starve" fails to work - she'll be telling you she "suffers from anxiety" next

I'm truly sorry, OP, but I'll be amazed if you ever see that money again, especially since you said she's prone to blocking people

Nothing wrong with trying and I certainly would, but in the end you may have to put this one down to experience and just make sure friends and family are aware so they at least can protect themselves

ThreeRingCircus · 29/09/2023 16:56

She's stressing out 🤣🤣🤣. I'd be telling her that you're the one that should be stressed considering you've been desperately trying to retrieve a highly sentimental item and you've just found out one of your good friends is a thieving bitch.

Possibly don't say that to her if you want your money back, but I'd be sorely tempted!

HurrahWuff · 29/09/2023 17:06

I agree with HoHoHoliday, but I'd skip the instalments part out as MargotBamborough** suggested.
She should sell something of her own.
Sorry you're going through this and on the loss of your friend Flowers

HurrahWuff · 29/09/2023 17:07

*friendship

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