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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this CF, and have I been out of order?

1000 replies

IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel · 29/09/2023 10:32

I don't think I am, but this has caused massive fallout.

A few months back 'friend' messaged me, telling me about a big event she was invited to and if I could help her with an outfit / shoes etc. friend is quite a glass half empty sort of person and has incredibly low self esteem so I've always been there for her to help / lift her spirits and just be an all round good friend to her.

I lent her a very expensive pair of shoes, I drove to her and helped with her hair and make up (she's not local to me) as I wanted her to look and feel fabulous for her event.
Yesterday I asked for my shoes back as I have an upcoming wedding to go to. Long story short she sent me an essay about how tough life is for her, and how ashamed she is, that she has sold my pair of shoes. (These are Christian louboutin shoes that were given to me as a wedding present a couple of years back) I told her that I was really angry at this, they weren't her shoes to sell. Friend went on to say she was under the impression that I GAVE her the shoes, and they were her shoes to sell.
I went back to the original message of when I offered them to her and it reads as follows..

'I have a pair of X you can wear, I won't need them for the time being so you can wear these if they fit you, you will look fabulous.'

From my understanding there was nothing about her being able to keep the shoes.

Anyway, I asked her who she sold them to and they were pawned. I called the store, explained that the shoes were mine and they confirmed they still have them and they haven't been sold on.
I told friend this, and told her she must buy the shoes back immediately.

She's agreed to buy them back, but has said that she will go without food, not be able to pay her mortgage for the month, and basically made me sound like a CF for asking her to do this. She's basically turning this whole thing back around on me, telling me that I could easily buy another pair of shoes. (I can't.. I don't have that disposable money as everyone knows how expensive life is at the mo!)

AIBU? I'm lucky I found the store she pawned them to and I'm lucky they haven't been sold on, she sold them recently and I gave them to her only a few months back so it's not as if they've been laying collecting dust under her bed!

She's now saying she won't be able to feed her kids (who are both in their late teens / early twenties May I add) and is trying to guilt trip me into saying don't worry about it.

The shoes have sentimental value, they were given to me by someone very special which is why I would rather have those specific shoes back rather than giving me the money for them. I guess it is my fault really for letting her borrow them. Needless to say, the friendship (of 15 years) is over.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:57

rubydoobydoo · 29/09/2023 13:55

Theft in law is defined as an intent to permanently deprive of something.

If selling said item to someone else isn't that then I don't know what is! It is a bit of a complicated one as there are civil aspects to this too.

Ideally the shop should return the shoes to you and then pursue her through the courts for lost revenue - a crime number for theft may persuade them to do this!

Edited

This is completely correct.

FarEast · 29/09/2023 13:58

I don't think she'll buy them back. If it were me, I'd swallow the cost, and buy them back myself, and then cut all contact with this woman.

It's a very shabby naff thing to do - sell something that was obviously lent to you. Pretty unclassy behaviour, certainly not deserving of Laboutins! She can shoplift her shoes from ShoeZone in future; plastic is about right for her.

Coolblur · 29/09/2023 14:00

EyesOnThePies you're probably right in that the Police won't do much, but it is a criminal as well as a civil matter. Reporting the theft means OP will have a crime reference number which can be used to stop the sale of the shoes by the pawn shop. I know this from experience.
She should be able to have them returned to her free of charge. But she needs proof they are hers.
The pawn shop's issue is with the person who pawned stolen goods so they can follow that up how they wish. I'm sure they don't take this stuff lightly, the nature of their business means they will deal with these things often and will have protocols to do so.

Mumofoneandone · 29/09/2023 14:02

Try small claims court to recover your money. On line and really straight forward to do - will cost the other side additional money/ hassle if they don't engage.

Luddite26 · 29/09/2023 14:05

By rights you could report this to the police and report the pawn shop for selling stolen goods.
But the police are likely to say it's a civil case nothing to do with them.
I would be telling the pawn shop they are yours and not friends to sell. I would be so angry I would have to make a stand

Luddite26 · 29/09/2023 14:08

You must have proof of them being yours because the person who bought you them is witness to them being yours.

Newestname002 · 29/09/2023 14:09

Buy them back yourself OP, then tell her you'll take her to small claims court for the money. If she refuses to pay you back or tries to avoid you then follow it up.

www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/make-claim

Obviously the friendship is over anyway. 🌹

Passepartoute · 29/09/2023 14:09

When she took the shoes in there were two options:
To take a loan out against the shoes, meaning they shoes can't be sold on unless she defaulted on paying the loan back.
Or to sell the shoes for a one off cash sum.

It's the second one that she did, so the shoes are technically the pawn brokers as she signed over 'ownership' and sold them for a fixed price and walked away.

No they are not technically the pawnbrokers. It was not possible for your friend to transfer ownership of something she did not own. They should have given you the shoes and pursued your ex-friend themselves.

AbbeyGailsParty · 29/09/2023 14:14

I actually gasped reading she sold them! Can’t believe a friend would do this.

Buy them back, you can’t trust her to buy them and mail them to you or even instruct the store to do that. Tell her she will pay X per month or you will go to small claims. And Obviously she’s now an ex friend.

rubydoobydoo · 29/09/2023 14:15

I would also suggest speaking to Trading Standards for advice before speaking to the shop again.

Ramalangadingdong · 29/09/2023 14:16

She must have been so desperate to do that. It is a shitty thing to do, though. How awful that you are going to have to buy the shoes back yourself. That is what I would do.

Unless she is a psychopath I bet she is mortified at having done that and will be kicking herself to lose a friend like you.

As an aside: she isn’t a drug addict is she? The behaviour smacks of addiction as does the lying about you having given her the shoes.

Coffeepot72 · 29/09/2023 14:17

OP - please tell your mutual friends about this ASAP, before she gets her version in first

Lorieandrews · 29/09/2023 14:18

IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel · 29/09/2023 10:32

I don't think I am, but this has caused massive fallout.

A few months back 'friend' messaged me, telling me about a big event she was invited to and if I could help her with an outfit / shoes etc. friend is quite a glass half empty sort of person and has incredibly low self esteem so I've always been there for her to help / lift her spirits and just be an all round good friend to her.

I lent her a very expensive pair of shoes, I drove to her and helped with her hair and make up (she's not local to me) as I wanted her to look and feel fabulous for her event.
Yesterday I asked for my shoes back as I have an upcoming wedding to go to. Long story short she sent me an essay about how tough life is for her, and how ashamed she is, that she has sold my pair of shoes. (These are Christian louboutin shoes that were given to me as a wedding present a couple of years back) I told her that I was really angry at this, they weren't her shoes to sell. Friend went on to say she was under the impression that I GAVE her the shoes, and they were her shoes to sell.
I went back to the original message of when I offered them to her and it reads as follows..

'I have a pair of X you can wear, I won't need them for the time being so you can wear these if they fit you, you will look fabulous.'

From my understanding there was nothing about her being able to keep the shoes.

Anyway, I asked her who she sold them to and they were pawned. I called the store, explained that the shoes were mine and they confirmed they still have them and they haven't been sold on.
I told friend this, and told her she must buy the shoes back immediately.

She's agreed to buy them back, but has said that she will go without food, not be able to pay her mortgage for the month, and basically made me sound like a CF for asking her to do this. She's basically turning this whole thing back around on me, telling me that I could easily buy another pair of shoes. (I can't.. I don't have that disposable money as everyone knows how expensive life is at the mo!)

AIBU? I'm lucky I found the store she pawned them to and I'm lucky they haven't been sold on, she sold them recently and I gave them to her only a few months back so it's not as if they've been laying collecting dust under her bed!

She's now saying she won't be able to feed her kids (who are both in their late teens / early twenties May I add) and is trying to guilt trip me into saying don't worry about it.

The shoes have sentimental value, they were given to me by someone very special which is why I would rather have those specific shoes back rather than giving me the money for them. I guess it is my fault really for letting her borrow them. Needless to say, the friendship (of 15 years) is over.

I’d tell her to buy them regardless.

Mammajay · 29/09/2023 14:20

I doubt she will redeem them whatever you say. Give her a time by which you need them and if they are not back by then decide whether you want to redeem them for yourself ( but only if you can go to the shop yourself as she otherwise might still not return them

Letsgetouttahere2023 · 29/09/2023 14:25

Wow. She has stolen from you OP.

ReadingSoManyThreads · 29/09/2023 14:28

@IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel in your Letter Before Action, you only need to give her 14 days to pay you back, not 30 days as some other posters are suggesting. You also need to send it via recorded mail, then save a copy of her signature from the Royal Mail website.

I know you don't want to tell your brother, but I would ask him if he still has a receipt/proof of payment for them. Tell him it's important and if he asks tell him you'll explain another time. I think this is important for trying to reclaim the money from the pawnbroker and when reporting it to the police.

Good luck.

regularmumnotacoolmum · 29/09/2023 14:30

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:20

OP, I think I would consider writing to the pawnbroker as well and asking for a refund on the grounds that they did not have good title to the shoes when they sold them to you.

Something like this:

Dear Pawnbroker,

On 28th September 2023 I contacted your shop to inform you that a pair of shoes you were advertising for sale were my stolen property. As I explained to you on the phone, I lent them to a friend to wear to an event on the clear understanding that she would return them, but she sold them to you for cash. You confirmed that the shoes were still in your possession, but refused to remove them from sale pending resolution of this matter. As the shoes are of sentimental value to me, I could not risk them being purchased by another customer, so I reluctantly re-purchased them myself for X amount.

Since our conversation I have been taking legal advice and I have learned that you appear to be in breach of your legal duties.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, a seller must have the right to sell an item. If the item in question is stolen, the seller does not have the right to sell it. This means that, having been informed that the shoes were stolen property, you should have removed them from sale immediately while the matter was resolved.

According to the industry protocol for the pawnbroking sector published earlier this year, you should also be taking reasonable precautions to ensure that items sold to you have not been stolen. If you had, for example, asked the person who sold you the shoes to provide proof of purchase or even confirm where and when they were purchased and how much she paid for them, she would have been unable to do so. This should have alerted you to the possibility that they were not hers to sell.

In light of the above, I am writing to request a refund of the price I paid to re-purchase the shoes.

I have reported this matter to the police. If you wish to discuss it with them my crime reference number is XYZ.

Yours sincerely,

@IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel

I second this. However, wait until the shoes arrive!

Magicpaintbrush · 29/09/2023 14:31

She's a THIEF. End of.

MrsMara · 29/09/2023 14:37

Wow! As the owner of a few pairs of Louboutins myself, I would be extremely upset and very angry over this.

It is theft and an absolute violation of your friendship. She is no friend, she is a user and a common thief!

I would be logging this with the police.

OP, seems like they will be back in your hands soon.

A costly lesson as I doubt this scummy person will reimburse you.

Let your friends and family know not to have anything to do with her again - and explain why.

MysteryBelle · 29/09/2023 14:39

I bet she has used you in various ways from day one with her pitiful me persona. You just now found her out. Get the shoes back no matter what has to be done and never ever speak to her again. Also, manipulators like this need to be called out. She is counting on you to stay silent on her unethical behavior. You should let mutual friends know what she’s done, and let the chips fall where they may.

The reason people like her get away with it is because no one challenges them.

MysteryBelle · 29/09/2023 14:40

MrsMara · 29/09/2023 14:37

Wow! As the owner of a few pairs of Louboutins myself, I would be extremely upset and very angry over this.

It is theft and an absolute violation of your friendship. She is no friend, she is a user and a common thief!

I would be logging this with the police.

OP, seems like they will be back in your hands soon.

A costly lesson as I doubt this scummy person will reimburse you.

Let your friends and family know not to have anything to do with her again - and explain why.

Yes, this is perfect. Do exactly this, Op.

ManateeFair · 29/09/2023 14:42

You have NOT been out of order! Your friend is an absolute horror of a woman. How dare she sell something that wasn't hers and then moan about having to get them back?!

momonpurpose · 29/09/2023 14:48

I'm do glad you got your shoes back. I'd definitely report is as theft and even go to small claims court. Not so much for the money as much as the principal!

JANEY205 · 29/09/2023 14:51

I’d never speak to her again either Op and I’m glad you won’t. She is a disgrace and a thief. Even when we had NOTHING my mother never would have stolen.

How much are they selling for now? Is it feasible for you to buy them back? I’m so sorry.

Beautiful3 · 29/09/2023 14:51

Oh my goodness, she literally sold them just a few weeks after you lent them to her?! That's truly awful. She just used you and laughed at you behind your back. I think you did the right thing buying them back, especially when they hold sentimental value for you. I'd be telling her she now owes you the money. I'd also report them as stolen to the police. Tell your friends and family what she did. I wouldn't help her again, and the friendship would be over for me. I'm so sorry.

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