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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this CF, and have I been out of order?

1000 replies

IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel · 29/09/2023 10:32

I don't think I am, but this has caused massive fallout.

A few months back 'friend' messaged me, telling me about a big event she was invited to and if I could help her with an outfit / shoes etc. friend is quite a glass half empty sort of person and has incredibly low self esteem so I've always been there for her to help / lift her spirits and just be an all round good friend to her.

I lent her a very expensive pair of shoes, I drove to her and helped with her hair and make up (she's not local to me) as I wanted her to look and feel fabulous for her event.
Yesterday I asked for my shoes back as I have an upcoming wedding to go to. Long story short she sent me an essay about how tough life is for her, and how ashamed she is, that she has sold my pair of shoes. (These are Christian louboutin shoes that were given to me as a wedding present a couple of years back) I told her that I was really angry at this, they weren't her shoes to sell. Friend went on to say she was under the impression that I GAVE her the shoes, and they were her shoes to sell.
I went back to the original message of when I offered them to her and it reads as follows..

'I have a pair of X you can wear, I won't need them for the time being so you can wear these if they fit you, you will look fabulous.'

From my understanding there was nothing about her being able to keep the shoes.

Anyway, I asked her who she sold them to and they were pawned. I called the store, explained that the shoes were mine and they confirmed they still have them and they haven't been sold on.
I told friend this, and told her she must buy the shoes back immediately.

She's agreed to buy them back, but has said that she will go without food, not be able to pay her mortgage for the month, and basically made me sound like a CF for asking her to do this. She's basically turning this whole thing back around on me, telling me that I could easily buy another pair of shoes. (I can't.. I don't have that disposable money as everyone knows how expensive life is at the mo!)

AIBU? I'm lucky I found the store she pawned them to and I'm lucky they haven't been sold on, she sold them recently and I gave them to her only a few months back so it's not as if they've been laying collecting dust under her bed!

She's now saying she won't be able to feed her kids (who are both in their late teens / early twenties May I add) and is trying to guilt trip me into saying don't worry about it.

The shoes have sentimental value, they were given to me by someone very special which is why I would rather have those specific shoes back rather than giving me the money for them. I guess it is my fault really for letting her borrow them. Needless to say, the friendship (of 15 years) is over.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Oysterbabe · 29/09/2023 13:30

I asked Chat GPT to write this. I'm sure it could be tweaked.

[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, State, ZIP Code]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]
[Date]

[Recipient's Name]
[Recipient's Address]
[City, State, ZIP Code]

Subject: Demand for Payment

Dear [Recipient's Name],

I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to address a matter of utmost importance regarding an outstanding debt owed to me. Despite previous attempts to resolve this matter amicably, it has come to my attention that the payment has not been received as agreed upon.

The total amount owed is [Specify Amount]. This payment was due on [Due Date] as stipulated in our previous agreement/contract [Reference Agreement/Contract Number]. I would like to stress the urgency of this situation and the necessity for prompt action.

I hereby demand that the full amount be paid in full no later than [Specify Deadline, e.g., 14 days from the date of this letter]. Failure to comply with this request will leave me with no choice but to pursue legal action to recover the debt, which may incur additional costs and legal fees.

To facilitate the process, please find my preferred payment method/details below:

[Specify Payment Method (e.g., bank transfer, check, etc.)]
[Account Name]
[Account Number]
[Bank Name]
[Bank Address]
[Swift/BIC Code (if applicable)]
[Routing Number (if applicable)]

Upon receiving the payment, kindly provide confirmation via email at [Your Email Address] or by phone at [Your Phone Number].

I believe in resolving matters in a fair and reasonable manner, and I trust that you will treat this demand with the same level of seriousness. I hope that it will not be necessary to escalate this further, but I am prepared to take whatever steps are required to protect my interests.

Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter. I look forward to a prompt resolution.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]
[Your Signature (if sending a physical copy)]
[Enclosures (if applicable, e.g., copies of relevant documents)]

diddl · 29/09/2023 13:31

I'm presuming that the pawnbroker has made a profit on the shoes.

Despicable!

viques · 29/09/2023 13:32

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:20

OP, I think I would consider writing to the pawnbroker as well and asking for a refund on the grounds that they did not have good title to the shoes when they sold them to you.

Something like this:

Dear Pawnbroker,

On 28th September 2023 I contacted your shop to inform you that a pair of shoes you were advertising for sale were my stolen property. As I explained to you on the phone, I lent them to a friend to wear to an event on the clear understanding that she would return them, but she sold them to you for cash. You confirmed that the shoes were still in your possession, but refused to remove them from sale pending resolution of this matter. As the shoes are of sentimental value to me, I could not risk them being purchased by another customer, so I reluctantly re-purchased them myself for X amount.

Since our conversation I have been taking legal advice and I have learned that you appear to be in breach of your legal duties.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, a seller must have the right to sell an item. If the item in question is stolen, the seller does not have the right to sell it. This means that, having been informed that the shoes were stolen property, you should have removed them from sale immediately while the matter was resolved.

According to the industry protocol for the pawnbroking sector published earlier this year, you should also be taking reasonable precautions to ensure that items sold to you have not been stolen. If you had, for example, asked the person who sold you the shoes to provide proof of purchase or even confirm where and when they were purchased and how much she paid for them, she would have been unable to do so. This should have alerted you to the possibility that they were not hers to sell.

In light of the above, I am writing to request a refund of the price I paid to re-purchase the shoes.

I have reported this matter to the police. If you wish to discuss it with them my crime reference number is XYZ.

Yours sincerely,

@IDontCareMatthewImSpeakingToRachel

Don’t write to them until you have the shoes back in your possession! I don’t think they will refund you all the money, because they will be out of pocket , but I would ask them to only charge you what they paid her.

randomusername2020 · 29/09/2023 13:33

This reply has been withdrawn

Removed at poster's request due to privacy concerns.

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:34

viques · 29/09/2023 13:32

Don’t write to them until you have the shoes back in your possession! I don’t think they will refund you all the money, because they will be out of pocket , but I would ask them to only charge you what they paid her.

This is the shop's problem.

It is their responsibility to do reasonable due diligence to check that the goods they sell on haven't been stolen. If they have, they need to be returned to their rightful owner, anyone who has purchased them in good faith receives a refund, and the shop pursues the person who sold them, i.e. the person with whom the shop has a contract.

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:34

But yes, I would send the letter after the shoes have been received.

Jellybean23 · 29/09/2023 13:35

Please don't let her guilt trip you over doing without food, etc. If she's that short of money, she should never have gone to the event in the first place.

RLmadmum · 29/09/2023 13:35

weirdoboelady · 29/09/2023 12:24

It is important that the letter you send her is headed 'Letter Before Action'. I would summarise what has happened and include your report to the police and crime number. Something like

Today's date

Dear CF

Letter Before Action

As you know, I lent you my CL shoes for a specific event on (date). You failed to return these shoes and then told me that you had pawned them.

I have managed to retrieve the shoes, but this cost me £xxx in pawn fees. There are also associated expenses as detailed below.

Retrieval of shoes
Phone calls
Postage
etc (anything else you can think of)

TOTAL

Please note that if this money is not forthcoming by September 30th, 2023, I will have no option but to use the Small Claims Court/MCOL to issue a legal case against you.

You may also know that I have reported this matter to the police. The crime number is xxxx. It seems from my investigations with the pawn shop that you not only stole the shoes from me but also represented yourself as the owner. Our previous text messages make the status of the shoes as a loan item perfectly clear. Of course, I cannot predict what action the police will take, but suspect that prompt repayment of the sum above will help your case in any subsequent criminal charge against you.

I look forward to the prompt return of this money.

This is perfect 👌

Hope you get sorted OP! What a nightmare this has been for you.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/09/2023 13:39

I’d go to the police and log a crime number, as this is theft, and inform the shop in writing that you are doing so. The pawn shop won’t be able to sell them, as they will be listed as stolen property.

EyesOnThePies · 29/09/2023 13:40

If you want your money back, be calm and sound 'reasonable'.

Dear XX

CF,

Thankfully I have been able to get the shoes back - this means such a lot to me as my brother gave them to me as a special gift to my wedding.

I was glad to be able to help you out by letting you wear them, but I think it is clear that my message indicated that it was to wear 'for now' and I didn't need them 'for the time being' - which is a long way from 'ever again'!

We can sort this out. I do understand that you are short of money so please agree to repay at £xx pcm.

I really hope we can sort this out without resorting to the small claims court. I have taken advice and would have basis for a claim, but let's sort this out between us.

Best....

She deserves a slew of anger and straight talking...but whilst that might make you feel vented, it won't get your shows back.

Coolblur · 29/09/2023 13:40

I think you should report to the Police and inform the pawn shop you've done so. That should stop the sale of your shoes. The pawn shop will have protocols to deal with this, which might include claiming for the loss of revenue from your ex friend, and even initiating legal proceedings themselves.
You will need proof of ownership though, otherwise anyone could do this. The photo should be enough, but ask your brother if he still has the receipt (he might, especially if they were purchased online) and if he would make or write a statement to the effect that he bought the shoes for you.

Don't just buy them back and let her get away with this. You've nothing to lose except a lot of money buying the shoes back. May as well make absolutely sure she never tries this again.

NewFriendlyLadybird · 29/09/2023 13:41

That’s unbelievable!

Honestly, I’d report them as stolen. The pawn shop will have to give them back to you. Your former friend is unlikely to pay you back.

I am not devoid of sympathy for people who steal because they have to. But to steal from a friend is the lowest of the low.

EyesOnThePies · 29/09/2023 13:41

People, please: The police will take no notice of this at all. They will deem it a civil matter.

EyesOnThePies · 29/09/2023 13:43

And if the OP goes to the police and they do nothing (they will not chase shoes that the OP took to the CF's house..) the OP will lose tactics because the CF will think she has won.

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:43

EyesOnThePies · 29/09/2023 13:41

People, please: The police will take no notice of this at all. They will deem it a civil matter.

What are you basing this opinion on?

Theft is a crime. They might not do much beyond issuing a crime reference number but they can't just ignore it.

MargotBamborough · 29/09/2023 13:45

EyesOnThePies · 29/09/2023 13:43

And if the OP goes to the police and they do nothing (they will not chase shoes that the OP took to the CF's house..) the OP will lose tactics because the CF will think she has won.

In fairness, if the CF doesn't respond to the OP reporting the theft to the police, a crime reference number is more likely to be of use in the OP's dispute with the pawnbroker. They should have removed the shoes from sale immediately they were notified they were stolen.

diddl · 29/09/2023 13:45

The friend obviously was wrong to sign that the shoes were hers to sell.

But she had the box & dust bag so it's easy to see how the pawnbroker accepted them as hers.

NewFriendlyLadybird · 29/09/2023 13:45

They’re not going to arrest the friend but the OP needs a number. That’s what always happens round here when a bike is stolen. And then it is possible to get it back from wherever it has been put up for sale.

Nanaof1 · 29/09/2023 13:45

EyesOnThePies · 29/09/2023 13:41

People, please: The police will take no notice of this at all. They will deem it a civil matter.

They aren't saying the police will do anything, but she STILL can get a crime ref. number as one would do for insurance purposes. That can be used in a court case to show OP did the correct procedure when she found out the CFer had stolen/pawned the shoes.

Everyone understands that the police are too busy policing speech and pronouns to be bothered by theft and other crimes.

randomusername2020 · 29/09/2023 13:46

This reply has been withdrawn

Removed at poster's request due to privacy concerns.

Sloth66 · 29/09/2023 13:47

I’d guess she’s secretly resentful towards you. Buy them back yourself , I wouldn’t trust her to, and you could lose them forever. Then cut her off and never see her again.

CactusPeach · 29/09/2023 13:51

I'd buy them back myself to ensure I get them as soon as possible and then charge her for it, she may not pay you back but at least you'd have the shoes and the sentimental value, the alternative is to insist she buys them back but they might be sold while she drags her feet and tries to guilt trip you into backing down.

GasPanic · 29/09/2023 13:54

TBH I would just be grateful I got them back.

You should never lend anything to anyone that you aren't prepared to lose or get damaged. You should never lend stuff to people if it means so much to you. What would have happened if they had got beer spilt all over them or scratched at the wedding or something ?

Ditch the CF and consider it a hard lesson learnt.

Glittertwins · 29/09/2023 13:55

I know you said they were a gift but I bet your brother would have kept the receipt somewhere safe as a guarantee.

rubydoobydoo · 29/09/2023 13:55

Theft in law is defined as an intent to permanently deprive of something.

If selling said item to someone else isn't that then I don't know what is! It is a bit of a complicated one as there are civil aspects to this too.

Ideally the shop should return the shoes to you and then pursue her through the courts for lost revenue - a crime number for theft may persuade them to do this!

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