DH thinks best friend is a freeloader because of facebook

[Notanotherhousepost]

Firstly I want to say, money is not the issue. We are more than comfortable. We have also always had joint finances - everything goes into a joint pot.

So, BF - lets call her Jane, works for the NHS as a band 4 - used to be a band 6 but when her job ended the best she could get was a 4. She's late 50s and works in admin.

Her outgoings are greater than her incomings even before food - her mother helps her out each month.

Most of her friends, including me, are a lot better off. I live the opposite end of the country from her. If she comes to visit I pay her train tickets and cover the cost of anything we do including food and drink. She literally can'f afford it.

Other friends will take her to gigs etc

DH has a massive issue with her because (1) he doesn't believe you should get help from people to the extent she does and (2) she never posts on facebook the way he thinks she should.

She'llpost about going to XYZ gig or going out for the day but does not say "thank you to notanotherhousepost for buying me the ticket"

Or"thank you to my other mate for getting me the ticket to XYZ"

Frankly I couldn't care less and she always sends a thank you note. But apparently she should be making it clear she can only do these things because people pay for her.

I just don't get it - I don't understand even vaguely where he's coming from.

She relies on her mum's pension/savings every month though.

That's between her and her mum. Nobody else's business.

She might as well move...Or move...Or move...

Yes yes. And take in ironing. It's a mystery why there are any poor people around when you could always just move....

Maybe mum is financially comfortable but needs her daughter nearby to help out? My friend and her mum are in this situation, her mum does help her out financially but she does her mums shopping, helps with housework and keeps her company when she's feeling anxious. Money isn't the only thing people offer to each other. Sounds like the friends company and hospitality bring a lot of joy to op's life.
She might be entitled to a small UC top up, definitely worth checking.

She's not on a poor salary though. She just lives in an expensive area. And who mentioned anything about ironing? You are strange.

You don't know anything about her or how far her salary goes in her area, but never mind. The point is, her mother's support is between the two of them and it's nobody else's business. I'd bet that a lot of people complaining that her mother helps her out had some parental support for housing at some point (I know my parents helped me with my first deposit). But even if not, it's irrelevant. Nothing to do with OP or anyone else.

I assume you must be very new to MN if you're not familiar with the "just move house and take in some ironing" attitude that is apparently the solution to poverty. Just to warn you, you'll find "penis beaker" even stranger.

Why do you think it's such an impossible suggestion that a woman in a flat she can't afford should move? She is paying significantly more than she needs to even in London, and this is budgeting 101; reduce the biggest cost first. Man + van moving costs will be less than she would save in one month moving to a £800-900 flat. She can't currently get universal credit for low income, because her rent is above the limit for a single person, so she's locking herself out of support just for rental. Most of us have some level of budget to live within our means, why is she different than everyone else?

Ah yes ‘just get a better job,’ I mean it’s not like we need NHS staff is it?
I hear there was a time when families could buy a house comfortably- on one wage…and not even a brain surgeon wage, imagine that!

Society needs even low paid jobs to function- the problem isn’t with the people doing those jobs, the problem is the profiteering in the rental market and the employers paying shitty wages. And let’s not forget the bizarre money laundering thing of paying shitty wages, charging shitty rent and leaving the tax payer footing the bill for housing benefit.

Or do you believe that people on low wages shouldn’t have a decent life?

Why do you think it's such an impossible suggestion that a woman in a flat she can't afford should move?

I don't think it's necessarily impossible, but it's clear that a lot of posters simply have an issue with the fact her mother helps her out, as if that's anyone else's business and anything at all with the fact that OP is happy to treat her to gigs etc.

It's also obvious that the people saying "just move" haven't even considered the costs of moving, the upheaval, the fact that she may need to be where she is for her job or possibly to support her mother... and they've no bloody idea whether moving would reduce her costs anyway because they don't know enough about her, her salary or her area.

And anyway, it isn't relevant. OP isn't asking about whether Jane should move because MNers don't approve of whatever arrangement she has with her mother. OP isn't paying for Jane's housing. She's asking whether her husband, whom she subsidises, is right that Jane shouldn't talk about her life on Facebook unless she publicly abases herself by making sure everyone knows who paid for it. To which the answer is: of course he's not, the prick.

The thread is full of pretzels, sneering and pure bollocks. And despite posters pretending that they want everyone to stop supporting Jane because they're so concerned about her or her mother, it's very clear that it's actually all coming from the "poor people should never have fun or choices" school of thought.

@SurprisedWithAHorse - obviously the OP's husband is being weird and unpleasant. I don't think I've seen people supporting his "humble thyself on Facebook" nonsense, though there's always one so let's assume some small minority do. OP separately however has said her DF asked her for actual budgeting advice, and that's why some of us have commented. OP lives elsewhere and she might think £1300 is the cheapest property in SE/ London, perhaps you think that too, but it isn't by any means cheap. I wouldn't personally comment about the mum, for all we know mum can afford it just fine. I do know that living with low disposable income is highly stressful though and best avoided if possible.

@PikachuChickenRice
If op was spending money they couldn’t afford as a family then her dh would be completely right to mention it but she isn’t so he can’t … so instead he is being mean. If my dh suggested my friend must publicly humiliate herself because if money I chose to spend , that I earnt and can afford I would look at him completely differently .. and yes it would be a sticky wicket from me. Not because of the money but because of how he wants to treat another person.

if op expected dh to publicly thank her every time they went on holiday that would be abusive … he is contributing to their family and also finances. Ops friend has her to stay over, cooks and look after her, is a good friend and is therefore contributing in a way op is happy with … so pays for treats occasionally and imo what dh is suggesting would be abusive to ops friend

With regard to sodding housing costs - I am in a South coast university town. I live in a relatively large but quirky and dilapidated property. My son and DIL live with me. We were lucky enough to get this property through my late DP having connections, when we encountered a crisis due to our previous rental becoming insecure due to a legal dispute between the leaseholder and the freeholder. We were very lucky, about 4 years ago. It was in my DPs employer’s (also a long time friend) interests to keep his most lucrative employee securely housed.

Fast forward to now. The rent is 1200. The bills are around 600. My DS and DIL contribute 600 a month and I am solely responsible for the rent. Since my business started to tank we have looked into down sizing. As a single person a bedsit would still cost me 800 in the current market, and a small 2 bed would be 1200. Plus bills.

My DIL was working full time but has developed a chronic long term health condition so is off sick and desperate to figure out how to survive. My DS works in an industry that was paying well till the writers strike had the knock on effect of decimating said industry. He’s currently doing landscaping work.

Every fucking thing has gone tits up for us in a short space of time.

The point I’m trying to make is that just moving is not simple. OPs friend is currently securely housed. She’s working, on hand for her mother who is at liberty to help her daughter if she is able to and chooses to. No-one else’s business.

If she moves it may cost her thousands which she plainly doesn’t have. A month - or more deposit plus a months rent up front. Potential commute costs. Moving costs.

No doubt she “should” just sell any possessions, lose all sense of security and comfort because her “pride” at being in penury should keep her warm, right? A good dose of suffering will teach her, right? Turn her into a responsible economic unit ? Or might she feel life isn’t worth living and spend the rest of her life grinding away to appease the capitalist monster?

Think of all those myths about dragons where towns and villages are held hostage, feeding the beast with everything they produce including sacrificing people, until a hero turns up to save them by slaying the dragon…. It strikes me as a relevant metaphor for modern life, but there is no hero to slay the dragon. Instead it’s a race to the bottom and a smug attitude that because a few can do well, so should everyone else, regardless of economic factors etc.

Maybe as more people find their illusory security chipped away we might realise that we’re heading for really dark times, because at some point the bread and circus routine won’t be sustainable.

Just move house, just get a better job, just solve all your mental anguish by going for a walk, just bend the world to your will, just suck up your suffering because it’s good for the soul - not that we believe in that sort of nonsense of course.

The only things I have that give me meaning or hope are my kitten, which some here will no doubt consider an unnecessary expense (but that’s ok - I have no appetite so my food budget is about 2.00 a day) and my DS because somehow I want him to have a better life.

If the OPs friend is being kept sane and functional by the odd treat from a lovely friend, why the hell does the DH want to take that away from her and humiliate her to boot?

This is the best comment I have ever read on Mumsnet and I think it ought be pinned as a reminder as there are so many comments generally from people who seem not to get how capitalism works and why people struggling in poverty are at its core.

What I don't understand is that surely OP's friend, by doing an essential job at a very low wage and paying most of that wage to a property owner, is subsidising all of us (plus the property owner) at great sacrifice to herself.

So why isn't OP's husband thanking her on Facebook every time he is able to do something enjoyable due to his good health?

@Pinkglobelamp

Thank you ♥️

I am sorry that ignorant, glib and flippant comments on here about "why doesn't Jane just move" seem to have upset you, as they would me if I were in that situation. I'm sure Jane isn't actually an idiot and that it has occurred to her but there are reasons she is where she is.

I'm almost glad, though, because you've explained so well why just move isn't the magic, easy solution so many people think it is. I wonder if they'd like all their NHS service providers to just move somewhere else.

And of course, the "poor people don't deserve to have fun" mindset that naturally everyone will deny.

@Ramalangadingdong Sorry been busy. But I assume you have the basics sorted out. She doesn't have that. She's running off to mummy cos she can't adult. There's a difference between having your basic life in order, and then taking opportunities and not having your shit in order and creating an image which is, I am sorry, but so very false. In addition, I assume you pay for some of the things you do. It seems she pays for nothing apart from her rent realistically.

But then, on the other hand, maybe people should go on the face value: "Why are you saying you need money for food, your life looks pretty good by the look of it".

She is taking the piss and people like that manipulate others into thinking they aren't "asking for it". They aren't. Directly. It's comments, or insinuations. Or the promise of something if their life gets better. Tho I do accept that she "treats" her friend to weekends in her house with food and bills paid for by her mum. Kind indeed.

I can't even imagine that much disposable income, how do you even spend that?! Anywho, if it's not your husbands money that you're spending on your friend then it's absolutely nothing to do with him.

I’m with #surprisedwithahorse —and I don’t think the divide is personal /not personal. Or emotional/rational. The OP’s husband’s complaint, and his solution, are all irrational emotion! And all the people pretending its about money and not sbout exacting some kind of tribute in shame For female poverty are just fooling themselves. The DH is not asking to conserve money at all—he is asking to receive a public, psychic, reward for charity by requiring the OP’s friend to either stop using FB to communicate with friends or to use it as a platform to praise OP and by extension himself for generosity which, of course, he is not showing.

Its a really vile stance and the posters here who support it are just, well, revolting. God forbid OP and her friends keep including an old friend in their social circle now that she has fallen in hard times!

@SurprisedWithAHorse

Thank you ♥️

I think what upsets me the most is the wilful way some people utterly disregard the fact that everyone’s situation is different and that sometimes no matter how determined one is to improve things, there can be periods when a succession of knock backs can erase every bit of progress and processing that is hugely stressful. Sometimes a bit of breathing space is necessary to recalibrate on all fronts, but so many never get that “luxury”. I loathe the word resilience. It’s becoming an almost masochistic thing, as if worthiness can only be measured by stoicism regardless of whether suffering is being imposed by forces beyond one’s control.

Going back to the whole issue of modern life, and social media - while most of us realise that the world of social media is an illusion I do think it promotes terrible cognitive dissonance. As an example my business page has several thousand likes and followers. Anything I post is cheered on - on FB my business is apparently a roaring success. Except it doesn’t translate to actual sales. If I could just be paid for the concept I would be fine. But I’m not allowed to be truthful about that publicly apparently - bad for optics, and smacks of “poor me”. So I’m left in this weird parallel universe where nothing is real.

I also am baffled by the whole “doing gratitude” publicly schtick. It’s a bastardisation of spiritual philosophy rebranded for a capitalist model and almost designed to make people feel superior by demonstrating it regardless of whether they truly feel it. Which I appreciate is a bit tangential to the thrust of the debate but somewhat adjacent. Quiet personal appreciation and reciprocity between friends should be enough, surely.

Anyway, I digress. I’m quite young at heart in many ways, but I’m not designed for this modern world I think. I’m ageing by the minute…..

I missed #Mistressofthedarkside’s very important post. Everyone should read and reflect on it—esp those who are in the UK. The misery and economic distress the UK is in, the utter contempt your political class has for you, and the blinkered selfishness of your fellow citizens is pushing the majority of you into a dickensian penury. The situation is dire and yet instead of protesting the gutting of the NHS or the utterly crap rental/housing market the posters here have fallen on the OP’s friend and vice signaled their victorian bourgeois virtue.

❤️

She is acknowledging it. She sends a personal thank you note directly to the people who have helped and supported her. Why should she have to announce her financial difficulties publicly on Facebook like someone being shamed in the stocks?

Please don't trivialise real abuse by calling every small thing 'abusive'. It's really insulting and damaging to those of us who are actual survivors of abuse.
If you'd read my post properly I don't think the OP's friend should be 'thanking' everyone - but there are many things about this friend that the DH does not like, which are more legitimate, and which the OP has stated in her updates.

Like taking money from her mother for food etc. As an adult! OP hasn't stated how well off mother is. Also, getting sweary after drinking.

To reiterate (although I suspect this will go over most people's heads anyway) I'm not saying that poor people should be publicly humiliated or live in sack clothes and ashes. But when you post things on SM there's a reason. You want everyone to know you have such a great life... why? To get attention? It's all posturing. The moment you post you rightly invite judgement, if you didn't want it don't post. 'All fur coat and no knickers' comes to mind.

And as @Ringdoodledumpling has said, not asking outright doesn't mean you can't create expectation by hinting, manipulating etc in other ways.

So your husband wants your friend to humiliate herself by announcing on Facebook that she has to rely on the goodwill of her friends to be able to afford certain treats? That’s nasty unless she’s a scrounger which doesn’t sound like that’s the case.

Her mother is giving her food, as any decent mother would, in fact, any decent human being would.

And actually people can and do post on social media as a way of connecting with other humans, a way of sharing experiences, opening conversations, inviting reciprocal sharing, connection and response.

It could even be a way of showing appreciation and gratitude for life experiences.

Those who interpret it negatively are probably projecting their own behaviours onto others, unable to understand that not everyone behaves the way they do.

Is he always there listening in when you're having drinks and a laugh with her? He sounds over-invested in your social life with your friends. Does he need to know every detail of where you go with her, who pays for what when you are out with her, etc?