To dread winter with my toddler?

[Summermeadowflowers]

Since DS started sleeping through, which was around 18 months, he’s woken early and this is often around 530. Tweaking bedtimes and naps doesn’t seem to make any difference to this. Sometimes he’ll have a spate of 630-7 wakeups but then will start waking earlier and earlier until you’re back at 530, or earlier.

It was miserable enough last winter but now we have a baby as well. Last night I woke to express milk at 230. Then DD woke at 330, I got her settled again at 4, then bloody DS woke at half five.

DH does take him when he can but if he’s working away or even if he’s in the office he has to leave at just before 7. It’s the longest morning ever before we can go out then we go out somewhere then DS gets really tired and stroppy in the afternoons because he is so tired.

No point to this, just a moan. I do love DS very much but I hate this particular habit he has so much, and I worry about DD as it inevitably disturbs her and the last thing I want is her being in this awful pattern too.

Great, so he's taking him every morning (7 days a week) is he, so you can cope with your interrupted nights with baby?

How long has he been doing this for?

Because this isn't how your thread reads.

There's so much mumsplaining in this thread.

Can a knackered mother not just have a moan about being knackered without dozens of people telling her there must be something she's doing wrong or hasn't thought of yet?

Could he be cold? It gets super cold just before dawn and when mine was waking up 5:30am it turned out to be that as his bedroom had two outside walls. It was tricky because it's warmer just before bed so I felt like I was overdressing him adding another layer/going up a sleepsack tog but he started waking later.

Does something happen around that time that you may not be aware of? Central heating with a timer clunking on? Neighbours getting up for work? Birds tweeting or foxes screaming outside his window? Maybe white noise would help idk. Its just if he's getting upset it may be an unnatural wake up for him anyway. I know you said you weren't after advice but my secret and unevidenced belief is that no human being no matter how small or young or whatever their sleep pattern chooses to wake up at 5:30am so it is absolutely a problem to be solved and not just part of the beautiful natural diverse tapestry of life.

@Mysleepisbroken (mine too) what are you wanting me to say here? I’ve answered you twice now. DH takes him when he’s here. He isn’t always here.

My son has been a terrible sleeper. When he wakes at 4:30 in the morning- only an hour after his last waking, I tend to pass him his bottle and put the TV on in the bedroom.
He watches from his cot and I am able to get an extra hours sleep...might work?

I've needed to find a solution, given that I've spent most of his life surviving on less than 3 hours or sleep.

My ds is exactly the same age as yours (also 3 in December), and he's started to drop his nap the last few months. At least, formally that is, because he will still fall asleep in the car sometimes. What we find is that if he does end up inadvertently having a nap, he needs much less sleep at night. So either he won't go to sleep until about 10pm, or he wakes earlier. How long ago was it that you experimented with dropping his nap? Could you give it another go in another month or so? And really power through with it for a while? Although I appreciate that will be very hard, as he'll be very tired without it, having woken so early.

You haven't fully. And that's ok, I'm not owed a response.

But I hope it's made you think a little about how things are divided in your house. I saw your thread the other day about wrap around care, and again it's you that'll be doing all of it because he couldn't, but at the same time he seems to work at home a lot. Virtually all women I know (and most men) would try to fix their days, or alter times of work a little, so that they could do some drop off/pick ups. It shouldn't all fall to you.

Its your life, and if you want to do it all, then crack on, but it doesn't seem like a fair division of labour to me. You were literally saying that you were dealing with the early wake ups when heavily pregnant (and presumably at work). I don't understand how a man could do that to a wife he loves unless it's physically impossible (ie for days he's working away overnight).

You say he does them, but also say he hasn't done them, but he's doing them now...

If your son waking is waking you, turn that's ok to your husband to make sure it doesn't. Maybe that means him sleeping in a different room (or sofa) with the baby monitor sometimes.

In contrast, my husband did ALL toddler wakes (woke up overnight lots) during pregnancy. He let me have lie ins because I was growing a human. When breastfed baby was born he continued to do night wakings for the eldest, and took both in the morning. When I returned to work, he'd get both of them up and out to childcare so I could sleep as late as possible, to try to claw back time.

Its weird how so many men 'can't' seemingly be flexible with work and how many women think it's the norm that they do it all.

I don't think it read like this either, but I'm glad from your update that he's now pulling his weight. I appreciate your wish to just have a rant and that the main issue is dreading those loooong winter mornings. I think even if you are disturbed when DH is doing mornings, you're not 'on duty' for the first hour or so and that will really help with the mornings dragging (although obviously you'll still be tired).

OP you don't need to 'bat this back'- do try to keep it in mind if you can. I imagine most of us have been in similar situations thinking it's all on us. I hope him starting to do mornings is the start of something positive.

Yes, more for thought than responding.

We have a lot of social conditioning as women that we SHOULD be doing the night wakings, the mornings, the bulk of the school runs, be the one doing the house admin, the cooking, the chores, often whilst still holding down a job. We run ourselves into the ground with it.

If our job doesn't fit the school run we change our job. We make sure there is enough flex in our lives to cover school holidays and sick kids.

And at the same time we tell ourselves that the man's job couldn't possibly be flexible, that it's important he has his rest, that we need to be flexible because of him.

We expect so much more of ourselves than of them.

We do we have the bar so different for men as ourselves?

Speak for yourself.
i think you have a point, as it's true for a lot of women - internalised sexism i guess - but not all.

Its not an issue I have in my family thankfully. But I think it's a deeply ingrained issue in society that a lot of women get sucked into.

I think it’s a bit of both for me. I am probably as lazy as DH can be - and he can be! -in my own way and I often do things myself because it’s just easier, in the short term.

But, his work does legitimately take him away and when he isn’t here, he can’t do things. That’s just pragmatism on my part as with the wraparound care thread.

I could have written this myself!!
My 2.5yr old is exactly the same and we have a three month old in our room who like you, wakes 4ish and then he comes in 5.30am! You aren’t alone - my husband will take him if he’s not at work but if he is, I let him climb in bed with me and strictly say ‘go to sleep!’ Is dark, it’s quiet and warm and 99% of the time he will go back to sleep. The times he doesn’t he will just lie there, yes awake and may move his legs with boredom but it usually gives me another hour of sleep before I eventually give in and get up at half 6! I keep telling myself it’s a phase and won’t be forever!

Sounds like it's one of two things:

1. he's just a child with extremely low sleep needs (mine is this sort too!) and you just have to plan days around it - up and quiet play first thing (recommend not doing breakfast for as long as possible!! Just incase hrs conditioning to wake as yes conditions to eat!) then leave the house by 8 /8.30 am everyday (trust me this is my favorite time for a park run / playground trip to be honest) and home for lunch and back out for a play group or a other park trip or something in the afternoon! Baby no 2 will just have to nap more on the go etc which is fine or (much much more likely statistically !) he's chronically overtired and that's why he's waking early and if you are religious about getting that nap daily( car,pram, cot wherever!) then he will actually sleep more at night Don't judge naps impacting sleep at night until you've tried it for at least 2-3 weeks just oh today he napped but still woke early isn't likely to be meaningful I'm afraid as he's still hugely overtired! If after 2 weeks it hasn't helped then he's a low sleep need child and you'll just have to encourage quiet time morning's and early afternoon building up from 10 min onwards to replace the nap and morning sleep! genuinely consider consulting a sleep specialist/ consultant there are loads of ways to help him sleep

Or put it out of their reach.

Hi OP- I rarely comment on threads but I do feel I want to comment on this one.

I was in pretty much the EXACT same situation with my eldest, and there were only 22 months between her and my son. They were both pretty much babies at the same time. They are now 6 and 4, so we are out of that stage but it's recent enough that I still shudder at the memory.

My eldest was similar not only in the early wakening but also the lack of TV as something that would keepher entertained for any reasonable length of time.

What I am about to say might sound unhelpful but I am hoping it at least provides light at the end if the tunnel. Here is my pearl of wisdom-

YOUR CHILDREN WILL GET OLDER AND IT WILL GET BETTER

It feels like hell on earth right now, and it is, and you might merrily want to punch someone who says that you just need to sit this out for a year or so, but I promise that this time does pass and that it is not as long as it feels, and that they in fact DO come to be entertained by TV (I would never have believed this at your stage) and that in a stort while (which seems like a lifetime where you are currently) your eldest will get up at his crazy early time, perhaps need settling downstairs with a snack and tv, and then you go back to bed and genuinely sleep, and before you know it your youngest is joining them without even bothering you, because they have an older sibling to join, and you the get up and start breakfast a bit later.

You will get there. It feels like a tunnel that will never end.

It does.

It just takes time.

They just need to get a bit older, and meanwhile you just have to marshal every bit of resource you can to grin and bear it and put one tired foot in front of the other.

Good luck

@longdistanceclaraaa - no, I don’t want to punch you at all! You’re right and I do hold onto this. It isn’t that bad either … it’s more just a very long day.

I do realise others want to be helpful but for every poster who tells me to get him to nap another will say to drop it. Realistically he’s just at a funny stage with naps. He didn’t nap today - will see what time he wakes. He napped yesterday and was up at ten past six. He hasn’t slept in the pram since he was about 14 months and very very rarely goes in it, he is nearly three.

@NuffSaidSam i think the thing with that is a child who is wilful enough to change the Gro clock is unlikely to obey its wisdom! I could be wrong though.

And - just to add to the above, it is only in the last couple of months he’s dropped the nap. He was up before 6 every single day between last October and December, and he was reliably napping 12-2 every day and bed at 7. He wasn’t overtired! It is frustrating when people tell you condescendingly where you’re going wrong. Naps every day for six months - up at 5. No naps - up at 5. I’ve said this; for some reason some of you won’t believe me!

My DD was an exceptionally early riser - 5.30 was a lay in. Early mornings were just about survival - coffee for me and TV / screen time for her. She could play if she wanted but it had to be independent.

I point blank refuse to do any fun and engaging activities before breakfast. She got better when she started school and is now usually up between 6 and 6.30. She’ll happily watch TV or play on her own while I rest (or even nap) on the sofa. A friend of mine does really fun stuff the minute her DC gets up and is exhausted by elevensies. The slow start to the day definitely worked for us.

Gro clock didn’t work here either. DD is a very compliant child but would get bored and frustrated waiting for it. She’d learned to reset it so the sun came up before she was 3.

Oh no I didn't mean to suggest I thought you might personally be in punching territory. I have picked up a general vibe on the thread but haven't read it in full. All I mean is that I could have cheerfully murdered someone who said things get better.

And then it turns out they do.

I distinctly remember looking at the clock at , say, 6am, us both playing on a mat, and despairing at how I was going to get through the next 13 hours.

It is clear you don't need advice about trying things you have sensibly thought of and tried....

I’m so shocked by some of the messages on here! OP I am with you. I have a nearly 2.5 year old who has always been a terrible sleeper. He doesn’t wake early but is up throughout the night and often for 2/3 hours at least once. Like you I have tried EVERYTHING and even worked with a sleep consultant. Nothing has really worked and I just think it is who he is but it is exhausting and can feel very isolating. When I try and have a moan about it to friends or family all I ever get back is advice or suggestions about xyz. Why I appreciate most people are trying to be helpful it can be so frustrating as I more than anybody want him to sleep mainly because he it’s good for him so have looked/ tried everything! Also my son would not follow a Gro clock either and wakes up crying/ shouting. I would not leave him alone in his room either. Totally understand the want to have a chat/ moan about it! And getting up early in the dark is rubbish!

@NameChange30 - a determined toddler will also learn how to unlock it. I was amazed when DD did it but now she’s older she’s very good with tech so I think her brain just works that way.

My ds is set early too. He's 6 now and will wait for his clock and at the weekend I put his tablet in his room and he's not allowed to wake me until 7am! So it does get easier. Personally I don't think your boy is getting enough sleep, so I'd put him to bed earlier because even if he still wakes early, he might be better for it.

o we had a similar issue. I'm normally an early riser I even went through a stage of getting up at 5.30 by choice (wth was I thinking??) And prepping for the day before my first baby woke around 6.30 then we had a second that didn't sleep and I really really struggled with any mornings and eldest started waking earlier so we put a travel cot/playpen in our room. It had snack, water in sippy cup and books/toys, we even sometimes filled the travel cot with ball out balls. She woke and came in to us and played happily for a good 40 mins without disturbing me. I couldn't sleep obviously but I could just lay and chill in my bed without needing to chat or engage and I found I coped much better. It was also low key for her and helped chill her so she didn't wake up at 100 miles an hour.
We also introduced night lunch- cereal, hot chocolate+snack 30 mins before bed and that helped her sleep a bit longer too.
Lots of luck!!! My baby is now 2 and life is alot better but I still remember the desperation and really feel for you... xxx