To dread winter with my toddler?

[Summermeadowflowers]

Since DS started sleeping through, which was around 18 months, he’s woken early and this is often around 530. Tweaking bedtimes and naps doesn’t seem to make any difference to this. Sometimes he’ll have a spate of 630-7 wakeups but then will start waking earlier and earlier until you’re back at 530, or earlier.

It was miserable enough last winter but now we have a baby as well. Last night I woke to express milk at 230. Then DD woke at 330, I got her settled again at 4, then bloody DS woke at half five.

DH does take him when he can but if he’s working away or even if he’s in the office he has to leave at just before 7. It’s the longest morning ever before we can go out then we go out somewhere then DS gets really tired and stroppy in the afternoons because he is so tired.

No point to this, just a moan. I do love DS very much but I hate this particular habit he has so much, and I worry about DD as it inevitably disturbs her and the last thing I want is her being in this awful pattern too.

I have no advice. I also have very few memories of my younger ones first year, because a baby combined with a 3 year old is full on. I have videos and photos and they're lovely, but it felt like he was born, then he looked at me and said "car". The year in between is lost in a mist of no sleep.

Be kind to yourself, and don't be afraid of screen time for the toddler to keep yourself sane. My older one had plenty of CBeebies time then and is now a top of the class type 10 year old, physically active and extremely interested in the world.

It does get easier....

If you think of it as one winter- a few months - to get through then let him watch tv for an hour or so until it's 7am. Yes it's not ideal but don't make life hellish when you have a newborn baby. If the rest of the day has exercise and activities then don't be hard on yourself.

Totally get you op, who are these toddlers who adhere to the rules of a gro clock?! Mine would just see it as an egg shaped light to be entirely ignored once she’d enjoyed smashing the shit out of it! Don’t want to give you another pointless suggestion but (maybe) it might help if not already tried? White noise? We put sea sounds or rain sounds on Alexa all night and I do think it helps keep them asleep.

Sending strength!!

Oh & I know you say ds doesn’t like tv but have you tried kids YouTube on the phone/ipad? 😬 the devils work to some I’m sure but some phases of parenthood are surviving not thriving!!

My 4 year old hasn't slept through the night since the day he was born, he's either awake from 12am-3am (give or take an hour) then back to sleep until 6ish or he wakes at 4am ready to start the day.
I've seen a few people mention gro clocks but there's not a hope in hell my son would have even the slightest clue what they mean 😂
I know you're not looking for advice but the way I've found to cope is to keep a baby gate on his bedroom door, make his bedroom a safe place filled with toys/books/sensory items he can amuse himself with until a reasonable hour. Now I go in when he first wakes up to check on him then leave him to it until its time to get up, only going back in if he starts kicking his wall too loudly or it sounds like he needs something.

Does he do an afternoon nap? Only the thing that saved my sanity with.my twins when they did the same thing was a morning nap. Then a shorter afternoon one, often in the car.
Oh, and the GroClock.

Not much to say other than I know it is SO frustrating!
My son was the same and I HATED being told put him to bed later, kill his nap time etc. Cos that would just make him rise even sooner!

So many said it will go in time - and it has! He is 4 now and at school and 7/10 nights will sleep past 6:30am and the other 3/10 will sleep past 6.... we have the odd 530 still but then we also now have the odd 7 and even 730

Tablet, headphones and a snack in bed next to you for the morning? From when he wakes until 7ish?

That's what I did in your circumstances.

Sometimes you just have to save your sanity!

I know you're being flippant, but yes honestly it's not that bad on paper! Kindly, I think you're in the depths of the really exhausting months with a newborn. Added exhaustion from your expressing regime.

You don't want to hear this, but it's the waking yourself to express, when neither child is actually awake and demanding your attention, that's doing you in at the moment.

5.30 wake up is not very far off a lot of people's normal wake up time. It's your overall exhaustion that's the issue, not your son's circadian rhythm.

Oh I forgot to add!!! My cousin had the same issue and her health visitor recommended something and it worked! You go in 90 minutes before the wake up - in your case 4am and you wake them - not hugely, but enough to break the sleep cycle. A little shake, a little wiggle etc. You DO NOT WAKE THEM FULLY. It breaks the sleep cycle and resets it as such. She did it for 6 days before it worked and did it for a whole 10 days. It worked! Obviously only works if the child isnt already getting like 13 hours sleep and fully rested

You have my sympathy op. Nothing helpful to add other than it doesn't last forever. Maybe crack out the fairly lights early this year to cheer up the dark mornings!

Wow so many comments are so out of touch!

The issue is ITS DARK AND DEPRESSING AT 5:30AM. Exhasution doesnt matter as much as that! With my son he would wake 530am and go down for first nap at 9:30. We would be awake before anyone else, alone, unable to even go for a walk and then he would nap 9:30-1130. Then he would wake and it would be lunch... we wouldnt make it out before 12 when all baby groups were over

I used to think that anything before 6am was unreasonable (basically still night time!), so if mine woke before 6, I'd say "more sleeping please" and ignore them. Anything after 6 and I had to grin and bear it and get up.

All I can say OP is your first post is a bit telling - you refer to 'dd' but to 'bloody ds'. Bloody ds is still a very small, vulnerable child. Be sure not to take your frustration out on him.

And finally, all of childhood is punctured with phases, which all pass before you know it. He'll while you're in them, but gone suddenly. This too shall pass.

I dont think saying bloody DS is telling at all.
You say you 'ignored' your child. The same age as which you say they are small and vulnerable. I assume you had the expectation that people would not extrapolate your words and would infer 'ignore' to mean minimum interaction. In the same vein im sure we can assume she is referring to DS as bloody DS as she is frustrated and tired. Are we not meant to reveal our frustrations to other adults, like on this forum, and instead supress them to make that 'taking it out on ds' even more likely?

I've read all your posts @Summermeadowflowers and you say you've tried everything but your list doesn't include cosleeping, have you tried it? It sounds like he's waking up and expecting to be with you, when he realises he isn't he's getting upset

That is indeed a somewhat contradictory post, @Charlingspont . I don’t want to sound unnecessarily argumentative, but you advise me to ignore a crying child while also rather pompously telling me not to take my frustration out on him. (And my bloody DD is driving me bananas at the moment. It’s said very much in affection.)

No, he isn’t waking up expecting to be with me. He goes to sleep on his own fine and has for the best part of two years. I really don’t like co sleeping anyway - co sleeping is no sleeping for me - but even if I did, I have DD with me in a next to me crib, which DS has decided belongs to him it really wouldn’t be safe.

Not everyone feels that way. And OP doesn't have the same issue that you had, with your child sleeping in the morning when others are up and about, isolating you at home. That sounds really tough for you.

I think, given that OP has tried everything, the best possible approach is to adjust her own mindset to the dark early hours, and to look at what she can change herself - as PPs have suggested - to give herself better sleep prior to the 5.30 wake up.

She's entitled to rant! We're equally entitled to chime in with thoughts and suggestions. It's an internet forum, not a personal counselling session.

My post was a continuation... I was agreeing with OP...

I have a just turned two year old and a 4 month old so I feel your pain. The 2 year old is awake at 5.15 every day without fail. We have a baby gate on his room and we will always try to send him back to bed first. If this fails, we put a film on his tablet (Cars is a big hit in our house). My DS has little interest in the tv or his tablet during the day as there are too many distractions but it buys a good hour in the morning when there is nothing else for him to do. I’ve also shamefully thrown a bag of skips in there a couple of times if I’ve had a particularly rough night with the baby.

Can I just chip in again and say let's all give some support to OP. My DS is 22 now but I can still remember those mornings when I had to drag myself out of bed at 5.30am and he was as bright as a button whilst I was half asleep. He was my youngest so we had to be quiet trying not to wake everyone else up, but I didn't have a baby to look after at that stage.

Yes it is tough and yes I think it is worse in winter. 5.30am starts also make it a really long day even if you go to bed at a sensible time.

When I say I ignored, I was actually co-sleeping, so perhaps I've not explained properly - I'd never ignore a crying child and leave them in a separate room. Could you bring ds in with you when he wakes early? And I apologise if I sounded pompous - hadn't meant to.

Oh, you have my sympathies! DS2 is EXACTLY the same. We have a gro clock. He loves it. Does fuck all.

My advice is to find something fabulous to do at 5am. Put fairy lights around the place and only turn those on until 7am. Snuggle up on the sofa with a blanket and watch whatever trash you want to watch. Bake a cake. Make sushi. See how long you can lie on the floor with your eyes closed before someone has a tantrum. If your DS is anything like mine, it's a phase that will eventually burn out... hopefully before you do.

Wait, have you thought about getting a gro clock...?

Gro clock! I was (very) skeptical of it with my then early rising 3 year old. But it really did work, trick is to set it to their time and then change by 10m increments over a month or 2.
Also, never let them leave until the clock goes yellow! (Just turn it yellow manually if you want them to come out of their room earlier, or set for an earlier time the night before) but they can't leave when it's blue! Seems militant but it's the only way it works.
My now 4 year old will sit in her room for an hour or so, play with toys, "read" books and wait until it goes yellow and bolt out of the room in great excitement at 7am exactly!
Not that I get any extra sleep with 1 year old twins who are up at 2/3/4/5/6am depending on the day! But at least I know DD has a decent night's sleep.

He does come in with me @Charlingspont

@Thankyouthankyoujellybean has anybody suggested a Gro clock?