To dread winter with my toddler?

[Summermeadowflowers]

Since DS started sleeping through, which was around 18 months, he’s woken early and this is often around 530. Tweaking bedtimes and naps doesn’t seem to make any difference to this. Sometimes he’ll have a spate of 630-7 wakeups but then will start waking earlier and earlier until you’re back at 530, or earlier.

It was miserable enough last winter but now we have a baby as well. Last night I woke to express milk at 230. Then DD woke at 330, I got her settled again at 4, then bloody DS woke at half five.

DH does take him when he can but if he’s working away or even if he’s in the office he has to leave at just before 7. It’s the longest morning ever before we can go out then we go out somewhere then DS gets really tired and stroppy in the afternoons because he is so tired.

No point to this, just a moan. I do love DS very much but I hate this particular habit he has so much, and I worry about DD as it inevitably disturbs her and the last thing I want is her being in this awful pattern too.

🙄

Fair enough if you don't think it'll work but if you're desperate and haven't actually tried it... how do you know for sure? Sometimes they surprise you!

I probably will get one for his birthday, but unfortunately he is wanting up and out the second he wakes. Anyway, was moaning more than advice asking - I’m pretty confident I’ve tried everything possible.

I agree with this. I wouldn’t be starting my day at this time, because it’s not morning at our house until at least 6.30.

so I would be keeping everything quiet and dark . I certainly never put the tv on or played games!

I had a friend who got up at 4 with her kid for years and it almost killed her and I will never understand why she put on lights and the tv etc! The last thing you want your son to think is that fun stuff happens in the early mornings!

Why is he now going to bed at 9:30pm?
Maybe you need to focus on his bedtimes for a few weeks. Have dinner at about 4:30 and start winding down from there. Dinner, something calm on tv for half an hour, a long warm bath etc and get him down at a more reasonable time. It won't change overnight but gradually getting him down earlier will give you more time in the evening.
When does your DH get in from work? What does he do in the evenings?

My youngest was a very early riser. I used to put the TV on and snooze on the sofa. Cbeebies doesn't start till 6, but Frozen has I about six songs more or less back to back from the beginning and that used to get me through to 6am.

I’ve only got one and I’m lucky that now she’s 2 she sleeps to 6.30am/ 7am (but all hell likely to break loose when clocks change 🫣) but she was previously a 5.30 riser and in winter it was a challenge. I’m not a morning person at all either.

From memory we did- 5.30, change nappy, downstairs, toys out and I just sat there and did minimal interaction.
6am- made breakfast and ate at dining table with radio on which hearing adult conversation gave me a boost.
6.30am- cbeebies on and clean up after breakfast and more just sitting there halfhearted playing.
7.30am both go upstairs to get dressed, brush teeth etc. usually a dirty nappy to change about this time.
8am- getting everything ready to go out, snowsuit on, coat on, sling/ buggy.
8.30am- should be lightish by now so get out- park, cafe, go for walk
9am- snack time
9.30/10am- library or toddler group usually on about this time.
11.30am- go home for lunch
12pm- lunch
12.30pm/1pm- nappy change, toddler nap or quiet time
2pm/2.30pm- post nap chill out with toys/ cuddles/ music/ cartoons
3pm- nappy change then go out to park/ library/ for a walk/ cafe/ supermarket etc and have snack somewhere along the way
5pm- home for dinner
5.30pm- dinner
6pm-6.45pm- play at home
7pm- bedtime routine

Broken down like this it was more manageable. When weather was really wild and going out wasn’t an option I did a daytime bath.

I don't have a solution for you but just want to give you my solidarity as my DD keeps waking up 5am or 5.30am every morning. I am looking forward to times when I can sleep until 7am or even 6.30am. 😂

He sounds over tired.

Try helping him to have a nap on the days that he’s not in nursery and an earlier bedtime, perhaps with a bowl of cereal before bed.

And yes to a grow clock or equivalent. He absolutely won’t ‘get it’ straight away but if this is important enough to you and your DH you need to be firm and consistent with it. Explain, return him to bed. If he’s usually up by 5.30, set it to 5.40 to start with, then gradually work back to what you call a reasonable time. Use it with a star chart for staying in bed until the clock changes colour. This is obviously a long term project but well worth being consistent with.

We had a clock that turned green when they could get up. It also had a visible digital click display. They’d toddle through proudly announcing ‘clock’s green!’ and as they got older, ‘it’s seven oh oh (7.00am)!’
It really can be done but is definitely not an overnight solution.

Both mine were really early risers. Its tough. Some kids just are & they will gradually sleep a bit later if you encourage them, and as they get older encourage them to entertain themselves. I have very positive memories of my very early childhood when I was the first up. I read, I drew, I played, my imagination ran wild. I would say try not to be too harsh - go easy on enforcement. The plus side is that in a very few years you wont have any difficulty getting them up for school! You'll be amazed how little time you are stuck in each phase! Even though it feels like there's no way out, sometimes.

He’s not going to bed at 930 @Hufflepods

If he’s overtired it’s because he’s getting yo at 530! I mean, a 730 bedtime and a one hour nap is quite normal I think. One thing I do know is you can’t force children to sleep, and you can’t force them to follow a Gro clock either. Of course, same will but plenty just won’t.

Hello. Fellow mother of a small person waking up at 5.30.

I have two boys aged 2 and 5. The younger will sleep longer the problem is when my eldest wakes up early he shouts until we get him up.

We have to be quick to avoid waking the younger one up.

Grow clock didn't work

The only sad fact is that by 3 he was happy to eat h cartoons while I enjoy a quiet cup of tea before the baby woke up.

Lastly - do what you can do to get as much sleep as possible - with a tiny baby you need rest too!

It will get easier and agree there is nothing more depressing then being up at 5am after little sleep in the pitch dark.

My eldest went through a phase of often waking for the day around 4 or 4:30. I was pregnant and my husband was working away through the week and it was crap. But it was just a phase and he grew out of it in a few months, so hoping for a similar outcome for you.

clocks changing might help in that it might be slightly later that he wakes?

Because a toddler won't comply with a gro clock? That seems a reach!

Probably because I said he wouldn’t understand it - I genuinely don’t think he would, he’s shouty and confused when he’s just woken up.

Have you got your toddler's bedroom completely blacked out- we have double blackout blinds? Also make sure you don't have any heating or washing machines coming on early morning. You might not hear it but it could be enough to pull him out of REM. The key is not to expose them to light or screens when they wake up if it's too early or you lock in wake-up time. Sit in the pitch black if needs be.

Sleep train him. Contact the blissful baby expert Lisa Clegg and pay for her remote support. She works with children up to 5 years and get both babies in a fab routine.

It's really hard, I feel you as we were in the same boat. Two things helped us. One was introducing a groclock - no need to make it complicated, just say when the light is orange it's morning time and keep putting them back in bed until then, you may have to lay with them or DH did in my case. We also used bribery so if she stayed in bed until it went orange she got something like a chocolate button. It worked over time!

The other thing I did was not mooch around in the early mornings, I was as busy as possible. Dishwasher, make breakfast, move the washing on, meal prep lunch and dinner etc. So basically once my eldest was dropped at nursery most of my jobs were done and I could go back to bed with the baby for a nap when they went down. Does your DS go to nursery?

My son is a bit younger but was the same until recently. It was a nightmare to keep him busy every morning last winter so I feel your pain! We also have a new baby so I'm glad we've moved on from this now.

Books and a couple of toys in his cot did the trick for us! He still wakes up early but now likes to stay in his bed, play and look at his books. Because he stays in bed, he will sometimes will go back to sleep and that pushed his general wake up a bit later (6ish), and he occasionally sleeps past 7 now!

Is there anything that would get your son's attention for 30-45 min in the morning?

I have major suggestions but both my boys were/are early risers. Eventually they will improve slightly and/or be old enough to be left. I agree that by the time 9am rolls around you fell like it should afternoon.
Don't be waking to express. do it before bed surely.

Oh of course loads won't follow it, not without it being explained endlessly. It was more the fact that you said he wouldn't understand it that prompted my question. I would expect an NT three year old to understand, blue means night and orange means daytime. You seemed so sure he wouldn't understand it.

If it's not for you, it's not for you, but I have found it a mistake to underestimate small children and not let them 'learn on the job' so to speak! The winter is long, he might not get it this week, or this month, but who knows if it clicks at some point.

Hopefully, the little one also settles a bit in the coming months. They're hard ages!

I need my hard hat for this but here goes...

When I was in the trenches with tiny ones and DH working away, when the big one got up too early he came into our bed and had screen time and had a goodies bar and a drink I'd prepped the night before. Me and baby snoozed, I could feed and change her then we could all get up properly at a more sensible hour.

Not that he wouldn't comply, but that he wouldn't understand.

A child of that age can understand, for example, that a red man means stop/wait and a green man means you can cross. It doesn't mean they won't run across the road, but they do understand the concept.

I don’t think that’s donning your hard hat surely - it’s what most people with early risers do I would have thought. But DS isn’t into TV, I had a thread moaning about it the other day. I’m moaning too much! They are lovely really - just not at half five in the morning!

Wow, are you exclusively pumping then - that is amazing but really hard work and time/sleep consuming, even without a toddler and early wakes in the mix.

I think in your shoes I would be looking to move to combi feeding to drop the middle of the night expressing, or maybe even trying to relatch (but would probably need help from a private lactation consultant I suspect). Up to you of course but suspect the current regime may get unsustainable for you.

The Gro clock did help us but not until a bit older. And it never worked to make DD go back to sleep… just to make her stay in her bed quietly (with a stack of picture books) till the sun.