To dread winter with my toddler?

[Summermeadowflowers]

Since DS started sleeping through, which was around 18 months, he’s woken early and this is often around 530. Tweaking bedtimes and naps doesn’t seem to make any difference to this. Sometimes he’ll have a spate of 630-7 wakeups but then will start waking earlier and earlier until you’re back at 530, or earlier.

It was miserable enough last winter but now we have a baby as well. Last night I woke to express milk at 230. Then DD woke at 330, I got her settled again at 4, then bloody DS woke at half five.

DH does take him when he can but if he’s working away or even if he’s in the office he has to leave at just before 7. It’s the longest morning ever before we can go out then we go out somewhere then DS gets really tired and stroppy in the afternoons because he is so tired.

No point to this, just a moan. I do love DS very much but I hate this particular habit he has so much, and I worry about DD as it inevitably disturbs her and the last thing I want is her being in this awful pattern too.

I’m doing the same as you just now. Just sending a moan back so you know you’re not alone 😂 My son isn’t getting up at half 5 thankfully but my husband is up for work at 6 (loudly 😒) so he’s awake as soon as he hears him up. I’ve been staying up late to try to feed baby as late as possible and also because I need to express late to let me get any sort of chunk of sleep. Two nights ago I got into bed at 12, had changed baby but she wouldn’t wake up for a feed so just had to put her into bed knowing she’d be hungry soon 🤦🏻‍♀️ sure enough an hour later she was up, for an hour🙄 Then did get a sleep after that til my husband was up and had then gone all night without expressing even though I had been up. The annoying thing is I could catch up on sleep between 6-9am if I just had a baby because she goes back to sleep for hours but that’s when my toddler is up wanting you to do activities 😂😭 my eyes are starting to sting

I am combi feeding @minipie , not by choice as such but I can’t keep up with her completely. She generally has about six to seven feeds a day and two to three are formula.

Moan back @dearcleo :great fun isn’t it!?

Have you posted about this before? I swear someone posted a couple of months ago about a DS that wouldn't follow a gro clock and had them up really early and they also had a newborn.

No advice, but yes it sounds awful so I feel for you. Hopefully it won't be a stage for too long.

I had a terrible sleeper who by your child's age only napped in the car. Early mornings are horrible so yes I know how you feel.

Full days out are few and far between in the winter months but we always did something in the morning to tire out, usually groups, swimming or similar stuff, lunch at home then immediately after, pop in car and within moments he was asleep. I sometimes parked in a layby with a cuppa and my book.

We then went to a park or something a bit away from home to wear out again, home for dinner and bed

Keeping a regular nap similar to nursery may help.

Ah moan away OP. Typical Mumsnet but I will say, this too shall pass. DS1 went through a phase of 4.30 wake ups. It's brutal. I also had dc 2 who was totally different, a great sleeper and napper but would be woken by dc1.

They are 6 and 8 now and have to be dragged out of bed for school.

I really would try the clock/yoto. Even just setting it 10 minutes later, go in to him and stay having a cuddle until it changes. Reward chart for staying quietly until it changes?

I feel your pain with the TV too, ds1 was never into it at that age.

No idea @Ilovenyfan . I don’t think so but I don’t know. Does it matter? I know that looks snappy written down and it isn’t: it’s ‘said’ in more of a puzzled tone really!

I think one of the problems is while I could do the nap and park thing with just one it’s a lot harder with two. DD wakes when the car stops

Early risers are hard! Like someone else the best thing I found was just to go with it rather than giving into the frustration that it wasn't even the mildly acceptable 6.30am start that some of my friends had. Winter mornings when it's raining are just bleak, but when it's dry we used to go for a long walk to the park that had ducks and a kiosk that sold bacon butties from 7am. My DP found mornings much harder than me, but I was usually done by the evening and they completely took over then. We do have a child that the gro clock worked with, and we got him up to 6.20 by 3 and a half. I agree there is definitely a personality type it suits though, and we introduced it at the right time!

Having said that, I've done the exclusively pumping malarkey and I couldn't have been so sanguine about the early rising with that on top of it. I try to avoid a lot of screen time, and audiobooks worked quite well when I was pumping and too broken to even attempt reading myself. With a 10 week old also there (mine was in NICU) I'd be giving in to the TV.

Thanks @Bemyclementine - I have tried. I think you try everything which is why I do smile wryly when people say ‘have you thought of using blackout blinds?’

He’ll grow out of it eventually

I'd recommend trying to change the way you pump at night. I exclusively pumped and when my son woke my husband would feed him the previous lot of milk that I kept in a cool bag while I expressed for the next feed. It worked really well for us and would mean you aren't waking up unnecessarily

It's fair enough that he "wants" to be up straight away but sometimes it's ok to not give them what they want and teach them that 5.30 is not an acceptable wake up time. He's not a little baby anymore and although he may not be happy about it at first there are ways of doing it. Things like the gro clock, yes he might not get it at first and it isn't going to work overnight but with firm boundaries and guidance it could work well.

Mine was a total pain with 5 or 5.30 wakes for ages.. the only thing I ever found worked was when the clocks changed for 6 months, then it became 6 or 6.30. Black out blinds, gro clock, changing bed times.. nothing made a difference he woke within that half hour window no matter what...

By aged between 3 and 3.5 it did change and actually became more like waking 11 hours after going to bed (so on holiday a later bed and a lay in, on weekends similar) but, until then literally his body said that's when he was up (whether tired and ratty or not!)

I had exactly the same. It's exhausting but you get through it and it won't be forever. Hang in there.

@NuffSaidSam oh must be SN if can't understand a gro clock. Give over . Jesus

I didn't say it must SN, I just asked the OP. It was relevant information if the OP wanted advice. She's since said she doesn't want advice, just a moan which is totally fair enough.

@Summermeadowflowers you might find as he's a bit older, and with the darker mornings of winter, he sleeps a bit longer 🤞

Can you drop the nap? Neither of mine were reliably napping by then (ds1 never 'reliably' napped!!)

What would you do if he woke up at 11pm or 1am and decided he wanted to be 'up for the day'? Can you not follow the same process and treat it as a night waking? (I am not a morning person, so would definitely class 5.30 as 'night time' still!)

Do you not give consequences for him shouting? That would be my first port of call. I don't really think you should be being dictated to by a 5 year old.

YANBU it’s awful. My son is 11 now but oh my, those dark winter mornings when all the indoor activities were finished by 6.30am and I was resorting to finger painting after our second breakfast (I hated painting!) and heading out to a gloomy empty park at 7.45am some days!

I was going to say maybe the dark will help him sleep longer. My son is 7 and he's up at 6am no matter what time he falls asleep, he was a nightmare with nighttime waking too. He never woke up happy, he only stopped waking up crying when he was going on 5! It's an awful way to wake up it used to startle me every time. I've got no advice as I never figured it out but hopefully the dark will help him. He's got a clock and an alarm set for 7 and every night I say you need to wait for the alarm but it makes zero difference.

I have 2 early risers. DS6 and DS2. I haven’t slept past 5 am in 6 years. I’ve just adapted and accept that I’m no use to anyone in the evening (DS6 goes to bed at 8) and after that, that’s pretty much me done. I think I’m numb to it now.

No advice but solidarity and you’re not alone.

But it's not night, it's early morning and so many kids wake it this time, it's perfectly normal and not really fair to leave just leave him there.

I feel for you our twins also 18month wake at 5.30 every morning no matter what and it makes the day very long as hubby starts work at 6am then there brother wakes around 7 and same as yours hubby will do all he can either the night before or if he finishes earlier in the day but its hard

It's very early morning, and no more of a reasonable wake up time than 1am, which is also classed as 'early morning' technically. Where would you say the cut off between night time and morning lies?
And I didn't suggest he's just left there. When my DCs used to wake in the night, I would go in and resettle them. Sometimes it might take a while, but we were persistent. If they really weren't playing ball, they might come into bed with us so we could continue to soothe them and doze ourselves, but the message was always it was still time to sleep.

I think there’s an element of “this too will pass” to it!

When my Dd was a baby she had a heart condition that meant she barely slept at all except when being pushed in a pram during the day. It was definitely much worse because it was winter, and there was hardly any day before the long night rolled around again…

Does he like audiobooks? Sorry if already covered. There are some aimed at really little kids eg Julia Donaldson, Mog, etc. Our kids always came into our beds during the night anyway at that age so if they woke early I’d just stick on an audiobook and we’d all snuggle. Still do actually at the weekends and are often in bed until 9am (it will come OP!)