Husband wants to go on expeditions

[Jude628]

Hi,

My husband is in the forces and spends a lot of time away from our family (3 year old and 10 month old). My mother in law is 4 hours away and rest of family is a flight away so I don’t have any help day to day and that’s fine- I manage (not always thriving but it is what it is and love being a mother and support his career).

However, my husband recently wrote me a letter telling me he has not been truly happy since our eldest arrives as he feels like he can’t follow his passion- going on expeditions eg rowing oceans, climbing risky mountains like Everest and K2- things that take a month or two at least to complete. He is asking permission to do these things…on top of his job, and spend more time away from us and I don’t know what to do! I want him to be happy but I also don’t want to agree to being a single parent 80% of the time.

Any advice please?

He is not intentionally trying to gaslight but I hear what you’re saying for sure…

I do sometimes get worried (and I say this to him) that maybe he should have married someone who was a mountaineer too. But he insists that’s not what he was looking for in a partner. But it sure would be easier for him. Yea we spoke before kids and he always sold it as we could all go out as a family but with school etc and the countries of choice it’s easier said than done. I trekked to Everest base camp with him when I was pregnant but I wouldn’t want to bring very young kids to Nepal for example.

money wise he would be part of exped teams and they would be sponsored. Time off work will usually be supported by his job if it is furthering his skills. Or he goes during his leave which is quite generous but I would rather he didn’t use his holiday leave by himself.

I do sometimes get worried (and I say this to him) that maybe he should have married someone who was a mountaineer too. But he insists that’s not what he was looking for in a partner. But it sure would be easier for him

Well he wouldn't want another mountaineer would he? Because then he wouldn't have someone at home supporting him, bringing up the children, running the home etc.

He's being really selfish. He shouldn't have got married and started a family.
But now he has he has responsibilities and he needs to be there for them - ie. actually physically present, not just sending his wages to the joint account...

I remembered when Alison Hargreaves died on K2 in the 90s, there was no end of controversy and name-calling because she was a mother and people said she shouldn't have been climbing mountains with small children at home. Male mountaineers who do the same don't get bad press like that - so it's "fine" for them to do it, but not for a woman. Er.. no, it isn't.

It sounds like you might be going to "let" him do it. In which case make sure the life insurances are absolutely watertight because K2 in particular is extremely deadly.

But please think about what you want. Is this the life you envisaged for yourself? Bringing up your children essentially completely on your own? Being married but not actually having a partner there at your side for most of the year - so not having the companionship from him? Having the worst of both worlds - basically single but married at the same time so you can't go looking for someone else who is actually more compatible and going to be there for you?

I have no real advice but as a military wife of a workaholic 100-mile an hour AT ALL TIMES husband- you sound awesome 😊

There’s a lot of times people are incredulous at the things I ‘let’ my husband do. But I married him knowing who he is. And while sometimes they make things tricky they are part of him and I wouldn’t change that. It’s not being ‘subservient’ to make compromises and it’s ok to sometimes choose what they want because you know it will make them happy, if it’s your choice and you don’t feel railroaded into it. Just as long as you feel the balance is ok.

He has made choices, which include marriage and family. The sad reality of life is that you cannot have everything you want. It feels like he thinks he's conquered "family man" and is now looking for the next challenge.

It's hard to believe that you cannot see both the selfishness and manipulation in his claim that sacrificing his happiness means he cannot be the best version of himself for you and the children. I'm sure most of us would be better versions of ourselves if our adult responsibilities were an optional part time job but they are not and he is happy to leave you to do the donkey work whilst he flits in and out of your children lives in between his attempts to find fulfillment.

Realistically an Everest expedition is two months, and that's if the weather is favourable. On top of that is the training and prep time. You said he is hoping to lead these expeditions (he might be able to do this if he has already summited Everest but I doubt anyone will go with a K2 novice as a guide) it won't cost him but unless he's planning to get sponsorship he will still have to pay for kit which isn't cheap. So his hobby will cost lots of time and money. If he can get life insurance it will cost a fortune, has he thought through the financial implications for the family if he's unfortunate enough to die on one of these expeditions?

You can decide for yourself what you are willing to put up with in a marriage but your children deserve better than an absent father who is selfish enough to think that by prioritising his personal fulfillment he's doing them a favour.

His desires don't become more reasonable just because he knows many other selfish men.

He's in a very lucky situation being able to do this all without worrying about funding. Just out of interest why wouldn't you feel comfortable taking young kids to places like Nepal? It sounds like he doesn't want a mountaineering partner he wanted you as a partner for who you are. Unfortunately he's in a position now that he wants all the cake and to eat it which he won't be able to do. He will either go on expeditions and miss out on his family (which will unravel and he will realise what he's sacrificed eventually) or he won't go and he will probably be miserable forever more.

If it were me in this situation then I would write him back a letter and tell him EXACTLY what you feel. Tell him you can cope with the kids, work etc but you don't want to be left alone for massive stretches of time. Tell him that you don't feel enough and that you feel second best. That you're worried your kids will feel abandoned. Tell him it makes you feel sad and you're worried that he will hold it against you. Tell him that it feels like an ultimatum - he does and he is happy or if you say no he will blame you for his own unhappiness. And then see what he says. Just be honest and don't hold back. You sound like a fair person and I don't think it's unfair to hold your needs as important as his.

“Ok I don’t really get time to myself and I prefer not being alone for months (yes family can come and stay but it’s not the same) but I guess that’s just how it will be because I married an adventurer- who knows of many other men who do it all with supporting wives.”

I sense that nothing is going to change. You’ve accepted your fate as a (married) single woman. Knowing other adventurous men doesn’t give dh a get- out clause though, and who knows if these other women are actually supporting, but just put up with it.

I think in these situations there’s always three options.

1. accept status quo - ie, allow things to continue as they are,
2. make changes - ie. Change the current situation, encourage hi. Go gave family adventures, not solo ones
3. leave , ie separate

i suspect you’re in 1) as your posts have become more resigned as time has gone on.

How does he picture his retirement? His relationship with the DC when they are older?

My kids are teens and like other PPs if your DH is not willing to put time into them now then they will want nothing to do with him when they are older. Playing with kids and being a fun uncle does not create the type of bonds that are necessary for a close relationship with older DC. Parenting them daily does that. Putting the time into your DC does that.

Has he ever expressed any interest in what you need to be happy and fulfilled. I agree with posters who say he never should have married and had DC. But that is the choice he made and he owes it to his DC to be the parent that they need.

He is replicating the same disconnected childhood he experienced. He sounds completely avoidant. Why have little kids if you want to run away all the time? I find that abject, frankly.

I think you need to start prioritising what YOU want a bit more.

@Jude628

”I lived a very fast paced, always travelling, eating out, gym etc life before kids- I’m not utterly boring I swear haha”

do you go the gym now OP?

@Jude628

he wouldn’t want a fellow mountaineer though would he? Who stay home and look after the kids?!
the only way him getting with another mountaineer would work would be if they didn’t have children

Im also not happy hubby. Let's split our spare time 1/3 family time 1/3 where I have the kids so you do what you want and 1/3 you have the kids so I can do what I want.

I suspect he may change his views of having a month away climbing a mountain for fun when he knows he is coming back to you going away for a month!

He is always encouraging me to have time to myself. He will bundle up the girls and take them on a hike or bring our eldest wild camping so I can spend a few hours doing what I chose. It’s just that all I need is a few hours whereas his trips are more extreme and longer so it will always feel unbalanced.

For the first time he is working locally so is home every evening for bedtime but I can tell when he is doing the big evening clear up he is daydreaming about another life even though he loves us all dearly. He struggles with the sacrifice of parenthood.

a letter back to him is a good idea and sitting down to write a list of what’s important and goals etc and working out a plan. There is just no quick fix or easy answer in this situation.

what he wants or he would say “needs”. He ... feels like he is sacrificing his happiness and ultimately will not be the best version of himself, for us.

Wow. Just wow. What absolute twaddle.
The utter selfishness is simply breathtaking.
And you seem to have fallen for this hook, line and sinker.

Are you the best version of yourself OP? What have you been sacrificing while you’re in his shadow?

So what would happen if you wanted the same time off as him? I know you don't at this point, but if you changed your mind? Is he actually willing to make the same sacrifice he expects of you here?

He says he would do the same for me but in reality he couldn’t because of his job. He is lucky because I’m freelance that I’m around to do pick ups, drop offs, walk the dog, work (though I’m on maternity leave still) and run the home.

So he actually wouldn't then, in reality?

He's asking you for something he knows he isn't able to provide an equivalent of in return, but doesn't appear willing to admit as much. That would piss me off a lot.

Indeed he is very lucky already but he is asking more and more of you.
It's not ok, I think he really should seek some therapy about why he is looking for ways to avoid even more family life, he needs to be physically, mentally present for your children and you.

I think the more I hear therapy mentioned that maybe that is something to look into that I had never thought of before.

However, I don’t think he is looking for ways to avoid family life. He is more trying to have both worlds. The exciting action man and be the best dad. He loves the thought of the girls looking up to him. His mum is just like him… former Olympian, always challenging herself etc, a very good listener, helping others etc and she is someone he really looks up to and respects. However she did basically raise 4 kids herself (apart from when they all went to boarding school) whilst his Dad did his own thing.

He is being very unrealistic. Who gets to go away for months on end with your sort of commitments?
I did loads of travelling before I met DH and had dc. I still wanted to but instead I went on holidays with my family and really enjoyed this part of my life. I also was aware that when they grew up DH and I would have new adventures. Now we're early retired we are doing even more.
Your DH needs to enjoy this phase and have adventures with you and your/his family. There are tons of exciting holidays to have with DC- safaris, skiing, yachts, cruises, Lapland, mountains and lakes, city breaks, sightseeing etc. He needs to stop obsessing over his wants and prioritise going on family expeditions at least until they are teenagers. Otherwise I'm afraid you will all miss out and there will be a build up of resentment in your marriage and life on both sides.

And it's not just about getting you the same amount of time, as you say you don't want a month away from your family. And I have great sympathy with the struggle of parental sacrifice. But how he manages that needs to meet the needs of all, including the children. Your needs may not be a month away, it may be more time together as a family and sharing the mental load. Your kids needs may be rather than Disney dad stuff (or fun uncle as it was brilliantly called earlier) they need regular and consistent presence and care giving. That can include the adventure but can't just be the adventure. This is the framework of being a parent and husband so he needs to meet his need within that framework. Maybe it's an expedition every 2-3 years but part of his pre-expedition prep is making sure everyone else had had their needs buckets filled up well in advance and refilled after.

His kids aren't going to look up to someone they never see. They are just going to resent him and as they get older will not have much of a relationship with him.

The man needs to choose whether to be a father or be a selfish twat going around the world.

He wants what his dad had. Kids, but not the day to day grunt work. Someone else, ie you, to make the sacrifices on his behalf because the arse wiping, story reading, lunch making, nursery runs, cleaning the same mess constantly and the doctors appointments are beneath him. Not beneath you, though. That version of yourself is just fine with him.

It would take much more than therapy for me to accept that.

I must say as well, with this all in mind, it's bleeding obvious why he didn't want to marry another mountaineer. He might actually be expected to make good on his protestations of support then.

So he is back for 3 weeks and then goes for 3 months. So on average he sees his kids 1 week a month. You say he’s a good father but he isn’t because he only sees them a quarter of their life and seems by his letter to actually resent that as he can’t do what he wants! He wants to see your children less than 1 week a month.

as everyone has said it’s not just the jolly itself it’s the training, meetings etc. so even if he went for 1 every 2 years he’d still spend a year prepping.

basically he doesn’t miss or want to be with you or the kids. If he did, he would change job or certainly not be hankering to spend less time together. He doesn’t value you it seems aside from as someone who facilitated him to do what he wants. His letter is quite manipulative and I would feel outraged he hadn’t felt happy since my children were born! Basically he’s said it right there, he’s not a great dad, they are an inconvenience to him.