Husband wants to go on expeditions

[Jude628]

Hi,

My husband is in the forces and spends a lot of time away from our family (3 year old and 10 month old). My mother in law is 4 hours away and rest of family is a flight away so I don’t have any help day to day and that’s fine- I manage (not always thriving but it is what it is and love being a mother and support his career).

However, my husband recently wrote me a letter telling me he has not been truly happy since our eldest arrives as he feels like he can’t follow his passion- going on expeditions eg rowing oceans, climbing risky mountains like Everest and K2- things that take a month or two at least to complete. He is asking permission to do these things…on top of his job, and spend more time away from us and I don’t know what to do! I want him to be happy but I also don’t want to agree to being a single parent 80% of the time.

Any advice please?

@Jude628 It makes me really sad that you feel supporting your husband means having to agree to these "adventures", life is an adventure, parenting is an adventure, admittedly a hard one but deeply rewarding. I know another poster said how wonderful their Dad's stories were after their excursions but as someone with an absentee Father myself I can tell you, I really hope my Father enjoyed my childhood, because I didn't. I have so many insecurities because I feel like I was so easily left and neglected by my parents. I am a stranger to my Father, it is so painfully awkward to be around him and that's because he just wasn't there enough to get to know me when I was growing up.

'Is there any adventure... like the adventure of parenting?'

Seriously though, he needs to wait till they are at least 14. And then the whole family goes. Or he climbs Everest while you get the time at a swanky Kathmandu hotel.

If you aren't genuinely in, it doesn't happen.

I’m really sorry to hear this. Strangely, this is the case for my husband too with his own dad who was in the military too and very absent then my husband was sent to boarding school and his parents divorced. He doesn’t want to be that same uninterested dad. I think because he is so involved when he is home and loves his family it is hard for him to understand how going away (which is often very irregular. He could be home for 3 weeks then away for 3 months as an example) could have a negative impact on our children or myself.

No, he doesn't get to "have it all" - family, army job and expeditions.
And I say that as someone who does "expeditions" of my own - not in the same league as his, climbing Everest etc, but long trekking expeditions of several weeks.
So I can understand the urge to be doing these things because I have those urges myself and am constantly thinking about the next one.
However, the difference is I recognized this in myself and have chosen not to have a family because it would not be fair on any children or on my partner to be left at home caring for the children while I waltz around doing what I do. In fact, in recent years, I've realized it isn't even compatible with a partner, even without children.

But he chose to marry you and he chose to have children with you. That is the choice he made and that means he cannot go off doing expeditions of a month at a time, on top of having the army job. If he had a normal job where he is at home for 11 months of the year and then did one expedition, then maybe, just maybe it's workable.
But being away 80% of the time - no, absolutely not.
Also you can't just wander up Everest with no preparation which means that months of training are needed, so even when he is at home he'll be spending a lot of time training.

Tell him no, it's not possible. Maybe when the children are older, but not now and you have no family support around you so that makes it even harder for you.

"He doesn’t want to be that same uninterested dad."
Well he's got a funny way of showing it.

" I think because he is so involved when he is home and loves his family it is hard for him to understand how going away ... could have a negative impact on our children or myself."
Then you need to point that out to him! In detail! What does he think happens when he's not there? Does he think you all get put in the drawer and are only reactivated on his return? Of course you don't, your life continues and without him there it starts to diverge. He is risking being unable to reintegrate into his family on his returns. It really is incredibly selfish of him.

A neighbour died on k2 leaving 2 young children. I don't think those high risk activities are suitable for parents of young children. Climbing high mountains has a high risk of death. I would be more open to the idea of a lower risk activity. But it would need to be fitted around family life.

Er- what are you on about? Being away from a parent even for a few days is a big deal to a 3 year old.

Not sure what your point is about the children without fathers. That's a tragedy of course.

The reality is if a father is away for much of a child's early years, or even if they are around but always distracted or working, it will have a permanent effect on their relationship into adulthood. If you are not interested in your 3 year old then your 30 year old won't be interested in you.

Can you afford as a family for him to go & do regular big expeditions ?

What do YOU get to spend family money & time on ?

He doesn't sound grounded in his family life

If you said no, would he just do what he wanted to any way ?

Is this letter the equivalent of firing the first cannon in a battle ?

I would take time to think about what YOU want in the future, before replying to the letter or speaking to him

Goodluck

He’s home for 3 weeks then gone for 3 months and he wants to add month long extra trips away and doesn’t understand how that might come across as being an absent father? This is just a no. ‘You weren’t happy with your dads parenting. As a man who is away MOST of the time, your kids treasure every minute with you, and your wife relies on that support l get those few days of the year that you are here, that my friends get every day. If you do this you are signing out of being a dad and a husband, so we are just done here personally. I haven’t any more to give this family and still be married, for you to choose to step back even further is unbelievable.

My husband worked overseas a lot when my children were small. They were traumatised - my son used to rush up to random men in the supermarket whom he thought looked like his dad and try to hug them. The idea that a father only has to be there for the high spots and mothers do everything else sounds like something out of the 1950s. In fact, the OP's husband sounds like something out of the 1950s.

What happens if he dies on one of these expeditions or, even worse, ends up severely disabled with you caring for him? I assume any life insurance premiums would be absolutely enormous if he told them, as he is required to do, that he intends to scale K2 or similar. I assume it would be at least £35,000 for something like K2 depending on how much support they will have on the climb so that is money that can't be used for savings, the children's education or trips that the the family can enjoy together. Am I right in assuming you'd be left with no income and two small children if he falls down a mountain?

Plus your oldest child is only 3 years old - he has had only 3 years of not being able to pursue "his passion". Unless he is extraordinarily thick, he could understand how being home for 3 weeks then away for 3 months could have a negative impact on your children or you. In fact, he is his father all over again who probably rationalised about what a wonderful time his son would have at boarding school.

I’m glad he’s a good father when he’s around, but right now he’s a bad husband.

Have you noticed that you seem very concerned with supporting his career and hobby, but he is not at all concerned about pulling the rug from under you?

Somehow you seem to have absorbed the idea that a relationship isn’t equal - it is the woman’s job to support the man. It isn’t.

You just need to say that you are sorry he is finding family life a bit restrictive, but as he chose to become a father he has to get on board with it.

Once the kids grow up, there will be time for him again, but right now it is their time.

Apart from the fact that removing himself from family life will make him more detached, the hobbies he is describing are both dangerous and very expensive. He cannot be risking his life or spunking house deposit style lumps of cash on getting up K2. No one with young kids should be climbing K2.

It’s odd he wrote this in a letter rather than speak to you when home. It’s as if he isn’t allowing you a voice isn’t it?

If I were you I would get back to work asap, I am not sure he is going to stay around unless he can behave just as he wishes. And why would you want a marriage like that?

https://www.insider.com/death-k2-real-story-climbers-stepped-dying-man-kristin-harila-2023-8

K2 sounds like an absolute cattle mart. Everest is a cattle mart too but a safer one. You could send him back up Everest to collect oxygen bottles and whatnot if he dumped the empties up there last time. Just make sure he doesn't get his full ones nicked:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40050483

https://www.insider.com/death-k2-real-story-climbers-stepped-dying-man-kristin-harila-2023-8

K2 sounds like an absolute cattle mart. Everest is a cattle mart too but a safer one. You could send him back up Everest to collect oxygen bottles and whatnot if he dumped the empties up there last time. Just make sure he doesn't get his full ones nicked:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40050483

he always wanted to become a dad and is honestly very family oriented He really isn't. While your children are so small and labour intensive he needs to put his own selfish 'wants' to one side. Lots of men seem to like the 'idea' of being a family man (or being seen as a family man) but then quickly bore of the reality.

My husband is a keen golfer and was a keen marathon runner. When our DC were small he largely put his hobbies aside because he genuinely is very family oriented. I didn't have to ask him or tell him, he decided that for himself.

I have little patience for men such as your husband.

I can empathise with your husband to an extent, not that I would have written the letter and not that I ever climbed Everest. finding the shift to being a parent difficult because he can’t pursue something that feels a fundamental part of who he is - is very painful and he may be going through a kind of grief process. I also wonder what it feels like for him to be with the closeness and dependence of young children after the childhood you describe and what emotions that brings up for him. The vulnerability and dependence of young children may be frightening for him as it doesn’t sound like that part of him was cared for or acknowledged. So this may be a bit about avoidance. I don’t know.

I also think PP are right about the likely impact of his going away on you and the kids. It must be so hard for you to solo parent kids that young with no support.

so I wonder whether it is also a supportive response to suggest he has some therapy to work through and understand what’s going on, rather than saying yes and perhaps colluding with his denial about the realities of his responsibility and his avoidant behaviour.

And in parallel, as others have said, move to where you have support and make sure that you have trusted people who can look after the kids and give you a break sometimes, so you have the headspace to consider your needs more and are supported in case he isn’t brave enough to face and process what he needs to.

That was such a weird comment, wasn't it? Anyone who thinks a parent's absence for weeks/months doesn't impact a toddler has never had a toddler. It's one thing if you have to be away for work, that's a trade off where you exchange time with your child for resources to feed, clothe and house them.

But that equation is very different if you're exchanging time with your child (aka PARENTING) for time spent enjoying hobbies. On a small scale that can sometimes be worth it: a parent who uses exercise to manage their depression, an hour at the gym five days per week is a fair exchange so the child has a happy, well, engaged parent the rest of the time. But weeks? Months?

I doubt that poster is a parent tbh. If you've ever parented tiny children you know full well how meaningful their attachment to their parents is.

I'd much rather not have had my parent at my wedding or graduation than have lost them for weeks or months at a time in childhood. Adults can cope much better and rationalise and understand. To a small child the parent is just gone. They've been abandoned.

I'm sad for you OP that you think this man is family-oriented. He isn't.

Family-oriented isn't about having fun with your kids when you're there. Or putting photos on facebook about them. Or saying how proud you are of them, or that you'd 'die for your kids' (which is a funny one for various reasons).

Family-oriented means that spending time with your family is important to you, that you want a family and when you've got one you want to be as engaged as you can with them. How he can have two tiny children and be daydreaming about going up a mountain on the rare time he has with his kids instead of parenting them and watching them grow is beyond me. I just feel sad that you're not seeing the situation for what it is. He sounds incredibly selfish.

If his family was in the army, and he was in boarding school, then I guess he sees it as normal to have absent parents. He doesn’t know any different. It’s interesting his parents divorced - maybe his dad was similar to dh and a bit single minded.

I also think he’s being selfish. Yes, I get that having young children constrains you, but hey, goes with the territory. You go with the flow, and start building new adventures, as a family.

And what happens if he dies on one of these expeditions? Has that been considered? What happens then? Finances, kids growing up without a father, huge upheaval to your life?

It's a bit different to what you're describing though. There are countless (and exciting) mountaineering routes in the UK and Europe that don't take months to complete. He is looking for the rush of high altitude climbing which is different to just enjoying mountaineering as a hobby.

Yes this is the problem, that’s what he wants or he would say “needs”. He is a very skilled mountaineer, he knows the risks and he wants to do things that he isn’t sure if they can be achieved or not. He has tried to ignore that desire and feels like he is sacrificing his happiness and ultimately will not be the best version of himself, for us. Ultimately it’s down to whether or not I am prepared to just let him do his thing. I live a very happy life with lots of mum friends, have my own career, a lovely home. Ok I don’t really get time to myself and I prefer not being alone for months (yes family can come and stay but it’s not the same) but I guess that’s just how it will be because I married an adventurer- who knows of many other men who do it all with supporting wives.

It's such a hard call but be careful what precedents are set. I was attracted to my DH's adventurousness, we met on the other side of the world both on our own doing our things. He was mostly present in the children's younger years but his activities meant there were many weekends after we both worked full time in the week with little ones that he would take off to do one of his activities. He goes away for about 2 weeks a year with friends or on his own to do high risk activities. It has meant we don't have proper family holidays and our family, now with two teens, operates in silos. We are all independent types doing our own stuff, virtually nothing is a shared experience. The family unit really suffered/suffers from his independence in particular since it takes him physically away from us. For the first time this year he took DS with him on one of these trips but just left him on his own, they didn't even do the activity together because DH is so much more proficient. So proceed with caution is my advice, and take stock of the situation as you go.

I will add though that dealing with the thought that we are not enough for my husband is a sad pill to swallow. But maybe I shouldn’t be seeing it that way. That we are enough but there is room for his passion too and that I’m lucky that I found contentment in motherhood. I lived a very fast paced, always travelling, eating out, gym etc life before kids- I’m not utterly boring I swear haha

It does sound like he's gas lighting you little ie if you say no then it will be your fault I'm unhappy. Sounds like he's put you in a corner. Or maybe I am getting it wrong?

Just out of interest did you discuss this all prior to having kids? My OH and I are keen mountaineers and have been to the himalayas etc and we had a talk about how it would work with kids and how we could make our lifestyle work. It's a bit different because we are climbing partners. Have you spoke to the other wives about their experiences? It sounds like the way it works for these other men is that the wives just take it on the chin. It sounds like you either have to accept his choice to leave you all to go and do these expeditions or you say no and he becomes a constant drain to you. Other option could be that you fly out to wherever he is with the kids and spend a couple of weeks nearby? But that's a lot of work for you very far away from home.

Also just out of interest is he paying for these trips out of his own pocket? I know so many people who have got into debt paying for expeditions. Unless his employer is paying for it, it will be upwards of 30 grand a year!

That's why I wondered about what's driving this need to go to high altitude. You and the kids are enough but I think there might be deeper issues that cause him to turn to this kind of thing to quench his need for peace.