To be profoundly saddened by this story

[Changeditforyou]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html

They tell us to help our daughters to protect themselves from male violence by thinking about what they wear, how much they drink, how late to stay out, where they go…
Are we supposed to add to the list ‘not rejecting a bunch of flowers in case you get stabbed to death’. This is horrifying.

I’m so so sick of male violence. It feels everywhere and inescapable. More luck than anything that your daughter isn’t the one. This poor girl and her family.

I just don't know what we're supposed to do about these men. I had a man run down the street after me recently, shouting the worst misogynistic insults and threats. Because, as far as I could tell, I had crossed the road shortly before walking past him. I was walking with my husband, wearing a calf length puffy coat, not making eye contact, doing all the things we're supposed to do to "be safe". Of course all his vitriol was directed solely at me.

I don't. At 17, he's responsible for his own actions. There comes a point where we have to stop blaming our parents for everything that's gone wrong in our lives and take some responsibility ourselves.

I've done some shitty things throughout my life - nothing illegal, just shitty. And I'm to blame. Not my parents.

@SweetcornFritter more outrage is needed, may spur some action actually.

If you are raising sons, then I can understand why you are saying what you are but the stance you are taking is less helpful as a standpoint than the rage posters are feeling because of the murder of this child.

Anyone who does what this little shitbag did has mental health issues, so what, stop pandering to that narrative, like it’s been said, it will now be about protecting his rights etc etc

We know plenty. We know enough to tell that this case is a tragically typical example of male violence against women. It is all about male dominance and male power; it is the ultimate weapon against women’s freedom and self-determination. THIS is the root of our anger: the knowledge that the weapons we have to defend ourselves against this possibility are so inadequate. The police cannot or will not defend us. Communities do not take us seriously when we draw attention to early warning signs that we are in danger. Bystander men do not feel able to call out dangerous behaviour because they don’t have the support either. Please don’t tell us not to be angry. It doesn’t help.

There are plenty of black girls at private schools too. I don't think her colour has been mentioned. She was a child.
.

So from the op the ‘reason’ that she said no to a male, so he killed her. I have wondered about this useful dismissing phrase used so often in the media, ‘someone she knew’ before. I knew the local drug dealer on my estate: he was no friend.

I think all girls and women have had shit from men they’ve said no to, but this just goes to show Britain is now entering a different phase of its ongoing male entitlement, misogyny, and violence. That poor girl and her family.

Im not sure if thats actualy a serious question ?

Take a look at the demographics there and compare them to the crime figures and a very clear pattern will emerge.

@Thatladdo and what pattern would that be?

Thinking of this girls family. There are no words.

We as a society should not be saying anything to our daughters, we as mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles need to challenge our young boys to be be better young men and later on men. We do not need to educate our girls about what they wear or how late they stay out but to educate men that what a girl wears is not consent, it is not an invitation etc. We need to challenge boys and men more.

Because we have the worse ever Mayor in London. Just play the victim and do nothing. The stop and search worked in the past so for starters they should enforce this daily. Send people to prison if they have knives.

That lots of people live in relatively small area? What's the rate per capita in London compared with nationally?

Croydon bashing annoys me no end, this is not a Croydon issue

Rather than being condescending, you could explain exactly what "demographics" you're talking about...

Of course this is primarily about male violence. But it is also a bit about Croydon, which has always been menacing but is getting out of control. I only go there if I have to.

Our country is in a really bad place right now, and we need urgent focus on both male violence and also on the breakdown of public order.

This is YET ANOTHER very sad event, Im sure your capable of searching official statistics, reviewing facts and drawing conclusions yourself - nothing else for me to say here on this thread about that.

I hope he is punished to the maximum extent of the law.

I've never heard of a girl that age being murdered because she refused a man/boy before. I'm aware of youth stabbings (typically male on male) and obviously adults murdering women who reject them - but that age.

Whoppingly anecedotal and impressionistic I know, but it does seem to me that social media, the rise in incel culture and Andrew Tate type attitudes of entitlement has seriously contributed to a shift in anger in young men.

It's nothing about Croydon, it's students at a £20k a year school. This is an incel problem- men feeling constantly entitled to women. This does transcend social class, it's nothing to do with Croydon being rough

There is something we can do about this… and we are

https://500rising.com/

@Thatladdo but defensive aren’t you. Drawing conclusions is subjective. Again, what do you mean?

Rage away then, for the good it will do.

Better than crying about NAMALT. Let women speak about male violence against women, which is a problem. Why are you trying to detract from that?

Look up the Ellie Gould case.

This is such a sad story, that poor young girl.

I am still going to teach my daughter about red flags in potential boyfriends (or girlfriends, who knows), what behaviour will not be safe and not to have relationships until university etc. It might not be politically correct but that is all I can do to keep her safe, which is sadly very little.

I teach my dc that boys and girls are the same as in they can both wear what they want, do what jobs or hobbies they want and that both are capable of caring for others and doing domestic chores.

But I am teaching my son from a young age that he will be physically much stronger than women, and that is why he must never hit one back (we had this conversation when he was being hit in nursery and he did well).

He is going to be a very tall man (already is) and stocky if he takes after his father. I think it is important he learns from a young age that rough play is not ok, the proper way to control and deal any anger/strong feelings and that people are not possessions.

He loves Spider-Man so ‘with great power comes great responsibility’ really resonates with him.

It’s not ok to suggest that allmen be locked up or kept under house arrest or be subjected to restrictions though. Because by doing that you are reversing the situation to one where women are in charge and men are the repressed sex. And that doesn’t work either.

sure it is. All women are told: not to wear short skirts, bodycon dresses, to drink too much, get in cars with strangers, go out at night, blah bloody blah.

So yes. Men can be locked up until they can play nice.

I grew up there, I went to that school and my daughter is a similar age to this poor child.
Imagine saying goodbye to your child in the morning and then being told this. So many lives are going to be affected by this. Her poor family and bless those who tried to save her.

Grim in any case to make sweeping and incorrect generalisations about young people but truly revolting to turn a young woman's murder into an opportunity to complain about a clean air measure.