Page 25 | To be profoundly saddened by this story

Changeditforyou · 2023-09-27T12:28:15+00:00

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html]] They tell us to help our daughters to protect themselves from male violence by thinking about what they wear, how much they drink, how late to stay out, where they go… Are we supposed to add to the list ‘not rejecting a bunch of flowers in case you get stabbed to death’. This is horrifying. I’m so so sick of male violence. It feels everywhere and inescapable. More luck than anything that your daughter isn’t the one. This poor girl and her family.

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 28/09/2023 22:05

MCOut · 28/09/2023 20:56

Honestly, I wasn’t going to comment but you have mixed kids. Come on, do better. If my DP came out with this, I would think about leaving him. Literally spend 10 minutes on Google.

You are spectacularly missing the point. No one is sitting here feeling sorry for violent people who are breaking the law. We are all saying the problem is the vast majority of people targeted have not done anything wrong.

Stop and search does not work. You are behaving as though it results in significant weapons arrests when it doesn’t. In over 90% of cases they find nothing and no arrests are made. It is consistently shown that it’s not a deterrent and it doesn’t reduce violent crime. It does not logically make sense to continue spending time, money, energy and good will on something ineffective. All it does is appeal to a certain kind of voter.

Essentially you are arguing that it’s fine for people like your children to be racially profiled and abused (because touching someone without their consent in my book is abuse) for no real benefit. It’s counter productive because then the police don’t have the support they need to tackle the problem. If we want to protect kids spending resources on this is not the way to do it.

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My number 1 priority is my child not becoming yet another fatality of knife crime. In fact, all children. I would rather my child be racially profiled/stop searched than her life taken by some knife welding thug who has gotten away with carrying a weapon. You say in over 90% of cases, it doesn't work. So what about the 10% of cases? If even 1 person out of that 10% has a weapon removed and is prevented from taking the life of another child, then that's OK in my book.

Come on. Do better. Please

Boomboom22 · 28/09/2023 22:52

If 1 in 10 searches find a knife that is very high. As a teen in Croydon they most certainly searched white teenagers too all the time. In the 90s especially, I was there. Lots of drugs found. Less knives back then but the odd gun around.

bombastix · 28/09/2023 23:21

And the law was changed to mean minimum sentences for possessing a gun. This worked. A minimum sentence on knife possession actually applied would protect the public. I don't care what kind of bad man you are pretending to be. Four years in prison and stop and search this stuff will stop. It is not put into place because of what? That it's young men? Well they are actual problem.

There is a lot of moaning about joint enterprise laws. Because these are effective against gangs. I read these cases and the protest is always the same. My son did not do anything. He was a good student. He did not know.

It's time to stop this. Babying these boys when they carry weapons like these is ridiculous. I've been threatened in a park by one with a kitchen knife. In a children's playground. They are not doing this for protection.

Skynorth · 29/09/2023 02:22

It’s very sad indeed but unfortunately a fact of life in cities these days.
But who exactly is telling girls and women to protect themselves from male violence by not wearing certain clothes or going out alone at night? Because actually women and girls are more at risk of violence in the home or from someone they know. It’s common knowledge now that there is no proven link between what women wear, or do, or where and when they go out, and violence towards them. As so many women will tell you, you can be wearing old clothes, not wearing any makeup etc and sitting in your own living room and be sexually assaulted or beaten up.
Nowadays, people know that it isn’t women who need to change their behaviour or appearance, it’s men who need to just not be violent. And anyone raising children needs to educate them from a very early age that it isn’t normal or acceptable for men to be abusive towards women. This means challenging any inappropriate comments or behaviour, not allowing children to witness abuse (so they don’t grow up seeing it as normal)
The responsibility for violence towards women and girls lies SOLELY with those who perpetrate it.
As for this girl being stabbed for rejecting a bunch of flowers, how do we know this? The poor girl is dead so can’t give her side. She wasn’t stabbed for rejecting flowers, this implies that she should t have done that and that somehow it is this, her action, that’s to blame. No. The reason she was stabbed is because the person who stabbed her hasn’t been raised to have respect for people, has quite probably witnessed domestic abuse in their childhood and I’m betting they haven’t been challenged enough over their negative behaviour in an appropriate way as a youngster. Too many parents these days equate discipline with smacking. Smack a kid and all you’re teaching them is that if someone does something you don’t like it’s ok to hit them. I would bet every penny in my bank account that this person has been raised around violence. A sad indictment on the level British society has stopped to.

MCOut · 29/09/2023 03:34

@Boomboom22 we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think it’s piss poor return given the cost.

It’s another force but Essex police managed to do 9,205 stop and searches in a 6 month period. Most of those yielded nothing. In a six month period they also collected 11,263 knives using an amnesty bin… it’s clear which approach is most effective. One bin in Brixton got so full they had to close it. Community led amnesty programmes are often not funded but surely that would be a much better use of money.

@Skynorth I agree with you 100% about smacking thankfully it seems less of a thing now

MealsWithPeas · 29/09/2023 08:10

Skynorth · 29/09/2023 02:22

It’s very sad indeed but unfortunately a fact of life in cities these days.
But who exactly is telling girls and women to protect themselves from male violence by not wearing certain clothes or going out alone at night? Because actually women and girls are more at risk of violence in the home or from someone they know. It’s common knowledge now that there is no proven link between what women wear, or do, or where and when they go out, and violence towards them. As so many women will tell you, you can be wearing old clothes, not wearing any makeup etc and sitting in your own living room and be sexually assaulted or beaten up.
Nowadays, people know that it isn’t women who need to change their behaviour or appearance, it’s men who need to just not be violent. And anyone raising children needs to educate them from a very early age that it isn’t normal or acceptable for men to be abusive towards women. This means challenging any inappropriate comments or behaviour, not allowing children to witness abuse (so they don’t grow up seeing it as normal)
The responsibility for violence towards women and girls lies SOLELY with those who perpetrate it.
As for this girl being stabbed for rejecting a bunch of flowers, how do we know this? The poor girl is dead so can’t give her side. She wasn’t stabbed for rejecting flowers, this implies that she should t have done that and that somehow it is this, her action, that’s to blame. No. The reason she was stabbed is because the person who stabbed her hasn’t been raised to have respect for people, has quite probably witnessed domestic abuse in their childhood and I’m betting they haven’t been challenged enough over their negative behaviour in an appropriate way as a youngster. Too many parents these days equate discipline with smacking. Smack a kid and all you’re teaching them is that if someone does something you don’t like it’s ok to hit them. I would bet every penny in my bank account that this person has been raised around violence. A sad indictment on the level British society has stopped to.

It was the best friend who was stabbed not the girl who broke up with the murderer.

Booklover40 · 29/09/2023 09:32

Just waiting for some fucking woke twat to cite 'Crime of Passion'. This is nothing to do with passion. It is a Hate Crime.

I just had the NY post (a rag of the lowest barrel-scraping order, I know) pop up on my Instagram with the heading “girl stabbed after she rejected lovelorn teenager”

“Lovelorn” FFS?

ilovebrie8 · 29/09/2023 09:45

Nothing about the boy who killed her are they not allowed to name him? Let’s hope he gets a very long sentence for this …what made him think he could this. Society is sadly broken social media is a big part of it I fear 😧

FraidyPuss · 29/09/2023 10:01

I was confused about this at first as the initial reports suggested it was the ex girlfriend who was killed.

Shocking thing to have happened, I expect there will be more details in due course.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/09/2023 10:05

but I was able to stand up for myself and I don’t harbour a grudge against men as a result or think they should all be locked up

//

Nice bit of victim blaming there

ButDaddyILoveHim · 29/09/2023 16:04

SweetcornFritter · 28/09/2023 21:43

Maybe so, but I don’t believe the majority of women feel that way. A world in which most women are living their lives in constant terror of men and fearful of attack every time they leave the house is not a world I recognise, sorry.

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The entire point is that it's not about 'terror'. It's far more ordinary and everyday than that.

I fully agree that on a day-to-day basis, most women are not walking around 'full of fear'. But we do, almost subconsciously take precautions, as a matter of course, that men simply don't even have to think about. Because the knowledge that men - as a class - are a significant danger to women - as a class - is one that is so normalised that we often hardly even think of the steps we have to take to protect ourselves.

It's not about cowering in abject terror. It's far more quotidian, more automatic than that. Crossing the street, checking out the cab driver's ID, having your keys in your hand on the walk home.

And that's utterly fucked up, when you think about it.

Lampzade · 29/09/2023 16:18

Apparently the boy’s mother collapsed from the shock of what her son has done.
So sad

SweetcornFritter · 29/09/2023 18:57

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/09/2023 10:05

but I was able to stand up for myself and I don’t harbour a grudge against men as a result or think they should all be locked up

//

Nice bit of victim blaming there

How so, when I was the victim?

SweetcornFritter · 29/09/2023 19:10

ButDaddyILoveHim · 29/09/2023 16:04

The entire point is that it's not about 'terror'. It's far more ordinary and everyday than that.

I fully agree that on a day-to-day basis, most women are not walking around 'full of fear'. But we do, almost subconsciously take precautions, as a matter of course, that men simply don't even have to think about. Because the knowledge that men - as a class - are a significant danger to women - as a class - is one that is so normalised that we often hardly even think of the steps we have to take to protect ourselves.

It's not about cowering in abject terror. It's far more quotidian, more automatic than that. Crossing the street, checking out the cab driver's ID, having your keys in your hand on the walk home.

And that's utterly fucked up, when you think about it.

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fair point. It is fucked up but it has been that way since humans first walked the earth and probably will continue to be so until the asteroid strikes. That’s not to say men shouldn’t strive to improve the way they treat women or that women shouldn’t stop calling them out on their behaviour, but I think the reality is that men as the (physically) stronger sex will always pose a potential threat to women (and children) both in the home and outside of it. It’s regrettable (or “fucked up” if you prefer) but sadly I don’t think there’s any realistic solution to this age old problem and knee jerk responses like “lets put all men on a curfew” are just plain silly. IMO.

ChaosAndCrumbs · 29/09/2023 19:43

ButDaddyILoveHim · 29/09/2023 16:04

The entire point is that it's not about 'terror'. It's far more ordinary and everyday than that.

I fully agree that on a day-to-day basis, most women are not walking around 'full of fear'. But we do, almost subconsciously take precautions, as a matter of course, that men simply don't even have to think about. Because the knowledge that men - as a class - are a significant danger to women - as a class - is one that is so normalised that we often hardly even think of the steps we have to take to protect ourselves.

It's not about cowering in abject terror. It's far more quotidian, more automatic than that. Crossing the street, checking out the cab driver's ID, having your keys in your hand on the walk home.

And that's utterly fucked up, when you think about it.

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Totally agree with this. It’s about the seeming normality of how much women actually do to avoid being in a dangerous situation with a dangerous man. It’s about the comments after a woman is attacked - the questions on what were they wearing, had they been drinking etc. It’s the getting your friend to text you when they’re home, it’s telling your daughter not to wear earbuds walking home or not to sit in the last empty tube carriage ‘in case’, it’s not leaving your drink unattended at a party and either finishing it or taking it to the loo with you. It is subconscious for many.

We don’t have all the full details about this situation yet, but again the same themes of the man’s want of something being a higher priority than a woman’s right to live a safe life have occurred. No, women don’t cower in terror - Elianne Andam was standing up for her friend. However, it doesn’t mean they don’t recognise that society is set up to make it harder for them because they are women, or prevent the number of men holding oppressive and aggressive beliefs around relationships (imagined or real) with women.