To be profoundly saddened by this story

[Changeditforyou]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html

They tell us to help our daughters to protect themselves from male violence by thinking about what they wear, how much they drink, how late to stay out, where they go…
Are we supposed to add to the list ‘not rejecting a bunch of flowers in case you get stabbed to death’. This is horrifying.

I’m so so sick of male violence. It feels everywhere and inescapable. More luck than anything that your daughter isn’t the one. This poor girl and her family.

I think the media that’s aimed at our children needs to be held to some account

They’re being raised on drill music, the likes of Andrew Tate and programmes like Top Boy

This level of violence and misogyny is normalised to them, they have no repulsion to it
Something seriously needs to be done

Not read the whole thread.
But went to bed last night (i) feeling incredibly sad and scared for my 14 year old daughter. She asks me for dating advice, i just feel utterly unprepared to advise her anything apart from if you have even the most tiny bit of concern about a boy then keep your distance. This girl clearly did not like this boy and it has a feel about it of the girls involved being in the wrong place at the wrong time (ii) a general depression about the whole of society being driven by male sex drive (literally all of it) because it is, isn't it?

@twostraws You’ve raised such an important point about early intervention at school age. There is such a lack of support for children in the UK comparatively, and I also wholeheartedly agree with @Stressedafff that organisations needs to be held accountable for the lack of moderation which is warping the minds of our children with the distorted reality that is social media - msm is also pretty toxic of course.

There are not enough mentoring programmes or easy access to outreach programmes in my view. No, I don’t prescribe to the let’s molly coddle these poor darlings until they feel better about themselves and stop harming others, they don’t have enough self awareness nor empathy in the first place to understand their behaviours needs to be modified. Lack of parenting isn’t going to solve itself but there needs to be a hard line somewhere on this.

I agree @Stressedafff . It needs to be controlled.

We are in an area that couldn't be more different to Croydon nice communities, nice schools etc. Yet, there are also dodgy men, black, Asian and white roaming the park and roads. They smoke cannabis as they walk or cycle in groups, look and act loud and menacing, there is drug dealing going on and they are basically groups of violent men that act in a threatening way. It's a minority but enough to make the streets unsafe for women and girls to walk by themselves.

Some of the boys on my dc's form what's app are also bang out of order. There is a roughness and depravation with our young men and I believe it stems from violent online content and access to cannabis and more. Poverty and a difficult home life are obviously a contributors too.

The identity of the victim has been reported, Eliyanna a 15 year old girl from a West African Christian family. It's gut wrenchingly sad and I hope the murderer will get a very long prison sentence.

I agree, but it will never happen.

If I have understood it correctly and the girl who died was not the girl the boy was interested in but her friend who was trying to defend her from him that is so so sad. Someone prepared to defend their friend for all the right reasons gets murdered. Not one boy/male/ in sight defending this girl. Just her female friend.

The blame lies with both the parents and the courts.
The parents aren't bringing their sons up to be respectful and inclusive towards females.
Half of the time, they can't be bothered to bring them up at all.
How many times have we heard about a young man being stabbed or beaten and stabbed by a young teen, or young teen gang in the early hours?
Why aren't the parents of these teens ensuring that they're not just at home, but in bed asleep where they should be, instead of our on the streets getting up to God knows what?
They're not bringing them up to respect anyone or anything, let alone females.
They're not encouraged with their education and to succeed in life, half the time they're not even at school and their parents don't give a shit.
When they do get caught breaking the law, they laugh. They think it's hilarious that their brain dead kid has been given an asbo or a tag.
The kids see it as a badge of honour, something that elevates their status amongst their mates!
That is where the law fails. The courts have jurisdiction to hand out much stiffer punishments than they do, but for their own reasons they give out the minimum instead.
That is also a huge part of the problem.
Until the parents start instilling discipline from the moment their kids can walk and talk and the courts start issuing discipline from the first offence, then it will never change.
Most of us when leaving our homes check that we've got our purses, phone and keys, not purses, phone, keys and a kitchen knife!
Parents need to start bringing their sons up to respect females and indeed, everyone else.
I have sons, who are now married with their own sons and daughters. If I thought for one moment that they were mistreating their wives or children in any way, shape or form, they would feel the wrath of both me and their father. No excuses!
As for running wild with the contents of my cutlery drawer in the early hours, that wasn't going to happen either. They were asleep in bed where they belonged ready for school the next day!

Women started to get somewhere, get some rights and men do not like it. Men were starting to feel threatened that women may end up with some sort of equality. I remember my ex being absolutely awful to me when I ended up in a job where I earned more than him, he felt emasculated. This was an educated man. He started to hit me, he did some awful things to me, he threatened to kill me, we looked the height of respectability and no one knew. I left him and moved miles away but I had a complete breakdown a year later.

The awful violence that we read about like this poor young woman is the actual tip of the iceberg. I live in a nice road with a lovely DH but I know even in this very safe suburban area women will be suffering and hiding the bruises.

what i find terrifying is that it feels like there is no disbelief anywhere in the reporting of this incident that the supposed provocation of the boy who did this was literally that the girl in question had said "I don't want to be your girlfriend".
This is reported like "oh well that is why he did it, that was the reason".
In a different time it was men murdering other men over women they both liked. Now it is men murdering the women who don't do what they want, every other man is nowhere to be seen and the press report it like it is a totally common sense explanation for what happened.

They are saying now that it was not the girlfriend but the girlfriend's friend, who intervened and was murdered.
No justification whoever he murdered, he's needlessly taken a life.
RIP, poor girl.

On the one hand I think there's a desperation to know the details. It's partly our brains working overtime - how will I keep myself safe, stop my son growing up like this boy, keep my daughter safe etc.

But, as a South Londoner, I've been thinking of other recent violence and its reporting. The spate of attacks on gay men were described as having homophobic motivation, right? Without the details of what, precisely, it was about the gay men which so offended the attacker. Because that would be disgusting victim blaming.

So why is the narrative with male violence against women different? Shouldn't the emphasis be that it was a misogynist attack, and the attacker knew the victim or victim's friend?

It amazes me that people don't get this

It is SERIOUSLY less bonkers than telling woe to stay home, don't drink, always smile, don't flirt, be kind, carry your keys, don't make men angry.

All I'm seeing from the Man Defenders is "wah don't be mean to MY boys"

What do YOU think should happen that doesn't curtail women's freedom?

A taste of their own medicine would do a lot of men, boys and the NAMALT gang some good

I'm a grandmother of 5 boys. I'd bet my life on it that not one of them would even consider violence against women. JM9138 has every right to the opinion that 'all' men shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.
There are other criteria that play a part here as well, which have been highlighted by some posters above. We should look at all of them if we're to make this a safer place for women.

This offender was already known for years to community groups. What good did they do?

The great myth here is that you can do something with a boy of 15. That is far too late. The failure happened years before that.

DS is 14, lives in Croydon and goes to a school with it's own Police liaison due to county lines and other things. He has watched Top Boy. I can assure you that TB has had exactly the opposite effect, it shows how unglamorous, depressing and just awful gang life is. I think it's quite a stretch to link the 2 to be honest.

What is known about the offender @bombastix ?

I agree with 'not all men', it really is not helpful. A curfew wouldn't work as those with violent tendencies will engage in depravity online.

What I have observed is that many parents raise their sons without firm guidance and boundaries. Many of the boys in my dc's year groups at school are out of control. They are disruptive and disrespectful in the classroom (SEN aside), they swear and say sexist and things to the girls. Some boys are lovely, they usually come from stable loving interested middle-middle class families with secure attachment and nice extended family, such as involved and interested GP.

However, not all middle class boys are well behaved. There was a boy when dd was in reception who was jumping with her on a trampoline at a 5th birthday party in someone's garden. Out of nowhere, he pushed her with all his might and she flew across the trampoline and hurt herself. The same boy pushed dd hard so that she fell on the edge of a table in their classroom in year 5 and had a visible mark from it. I don't want to know what this boy is up to now. Those violent boys and men are also really bad news for nice boys.

I worry that tween and teen boys spend much time online playing violent games and consuming mindless violent content. I don't know what the answer is.

@Matchingcollarandcuffs

I'm glad you said that about Top Boy because that comment was just ridiculous.

That's a start. I didn't have any sons... I did my best with pupils.
We also need significant legislation to contain and control the behaviour of boys and men, and we need a gargantuan change of attitude in society. Women will have to step up, speak up, stand with other women, and persist. Services such as the police need re-education. The education system needs restructuring to give equal and appropriate provision for female children.
Oh, shush, Grandma. Nobody cares.

Most young people I work with carry knives because they believe everyone else does and people their age are very stabby - to it makes a circle - again address the issues first
the group mostly affected needs to accept some responsibility and take steps to address the issues that they are able to. This thread is going down the usual route of blaming everything else but ignoring the elephant in the room which is often children involved are of a certain community. I would like to see the community which is mostly affected get organised and come up with a solution as to what they are able to do to eradicate it and also state clearly where they need help from other resources. They need to take some ownership and some responsibility.
Right now all I ever see is nobody daring to say where the main issue seems to be and the people in the most effected communities not getting organised off their own bat to do something about it.

I have just googled Knife Crime Petition (specifically ones calling for more police power to stop and search and more enforced consequences) and there are loads - some have a couple of thousand signatures and others are expired.

Does anyone have links to one that has good traction (so that there is a chance it will reach 100,00 signatures) that we can all sign and circulate?

I know that's not the be all and end off of the problem. We need a change in culture, early intervention with young boys, more police on streets, more youth clubs/mentors/ex gang members trying to catch these kids before they turn. We need a sea of change.

But until that happens, we need crack down. The Mayor and Met police are responsible for that crack down and they are not fulfilling their role. I am sick of being frightened for my kids (DD 18 and DS 16) and would like something practical I can get behind.

@Stressedafff normalising violence in the media causes a lot of damage yes

Yes that’s the case for your DS

How many kids look past the risk of being killed etc and see money, power? Plenty. I’m not actually linking anything but the shit our kids are watching and absorbing will be contributing

They can listen to music by gang members who detail shooting and hurting people, graphic lyrics which mostly include comments about women too

They go on tiktok and see the likes of HSTikkyTokky and co referring to black women as “drogba”
Andrew Tate making the remarks he does
Misogyny and male violence is everywhere and it’s never called out
Take Tyson Fury, he’s made comments in the past how women are only good for laying on their back and being in the kitchen, nothing was said, they’re on Netflix with their own documentary where he’s out and proud treating his wife like absolute shit and the only thing that’s been said is how Paris is such a great woman for putting up with it and Tyson is still seen as a great role model because of his mental health

The small comments made about women, the sly digs here and there need stopping or else it’ll continue and worsen

People also need to stop voting for politicians who don't care. If they don't know what a woman is, they can't legislate appropriately against VAWG. They're also either idiots or liars.

The fallacy about the Tories being the party of law and order also needs consigned to the history books. They have contributed to this by cutting police, police stations, prison officers, early years support, community initiatives, etc. Their priority is siphoning off our money to their friends.

And all parties need to get on top of legislating social media. And tbh if it means banning all social media because they find it impossible to police the literally millions of threats - then ban them. As a social experiment, social media has had awful outcomes for society.