Page 17 | To be profoundly saddened by this story

Changeditforyou · 2023-09-27T12:28:15+00:00

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html]] They tell us to help our daughters to protect themselves from male violence by thinking about what they wear, how much they drink, how late to stay out, where they go… Are we supposed to add to the list ‘not rejecting a bunch of flowers in case you get stabbed to death’. This is horrifying. I’m so so sick of male violence. It feels everywhere and inescapable. More luck than anything that your daughter isn’t the one. This poor girl and her family.

Thatcat · 27/09/2023 21:41

‘’Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them’’

That poor girl. Her poor family.
Entitled little prick.

shushymcshush · 27/09/2023 21:42

DyslexicPoster · 27/09/2023 20:37

I think we need to teach our daughters too. I was thinking today it's not just what I tell my sons, it's what I tell my daughter too. That's she second to no one, was born to serve no one. She doesn't have to marry and have kids. It's all her choice if she wants to take on a equal. The classic Disney story is BS. I'm always told my dd is fiesty. Not great in a 8 year old but vital in a teen girl.

Yes this too. I used to see this in my niece, a real spirit and drive that some said she was "bossy" or "madam" or "loud" etc and wanted her to be quietened down. I'm so proud of how she is true to herself and is going to go places.

I think some men behave this way because they are afraid. Afraid of what women could do/be/achieve if we had nothing to stand in our way or hold us back. No glass ceiling, no pay gap, control over our own bodies etc etc. They think they must be in control and in charge. To give us equality, in their eyes, would be "giving in" or weakening their own position.

So they want to oppress us, objectify us, control us, abuse us, murder us etc. The hatred spewing toxic nonsense from Loser Fox et al resonates with them and justifies this behaviour, to them at least.

notahappybunny7 · 27/09/2023 21:42

mummymeister · 27/09/2023 18:55

I really, really dont fecking care what colour either of them were. or which school they went to. or their family income or anything else. I care that women and girls are effectively being made housebound. we cant go out, we cant eat out we cant visit friends or go to the shops or live any sort of full life because SOME men have no civilisation. they are not civilised. How has this happened? How are their main carers, who are women bringing these little shits into the world when there is no father on the scene. why do these mothers feel so worthless they only feel valued with a baby on their hip and a man on their lips. why do we excuse it as anger issues, adh whatever the latest fecking fad is, why. why are we allowing porn when the overwhelming majority of adults arent interested in it. why are we giving AT air space and allowing him to spread his bile. we tiptoe round people and talk about their rights all the time. yet no one absolutely no one is standing up for the rights of that poor girl. and yes, I am livid, furious and think we need to take a long hard look at the shit we are in and put in whatever draconian measures are necessary to put a stop to this. and if I upset some poor ickle bit of male priviledge I dont care. I really dont. because you are either the problem or the solution now. it has to stop, it has to stop.

You sound deranged, and also blaming women.

Lampzade · 27/09/2023 21:43

PallyRoe · 27/09/2023 18:27

I’m not sure why people are assuming this girl was white and privileged. Can only white people afford private school?

I believe she was black, based on her family members that have been shown in the press.

Do people not have much experience of private schools in London? They are actually very diverse.

Exactly.
The private schools in London are diverse.

MotherOfRatios · 27/09/2023 21:44

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Fair enough London is third but there's a lot of cities in the top 20 which are predominantly white, knife crime isn't inherently a 'black issue' for a long time it was Glasgow and that's a pretty white place.

framing it as a race issue in a time where police trust with black people is very low won't solve anything

shushymcshush · 27/09/2023 21:50

ButDaddyILoveHim · 27/09/2023 21:39

I once explained it to dh like this - women are only as safe as the men around them allow them to be. And then I watched the penny start to drop.

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"As safe as the men around them allow them to be."

Exactly this. ☝

It reminds me of so many stories I read after the Ch4 Dispatches programme. Women being told not to be in an office on their own with a very "touchy feely male member of staff or client". How about just fire off the staff member/client? But no, the employers cared more about the men/bringing in the money, than taking a stand on protecting women.

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 21:51

@notahappybunny7

You're ignorant.

MealsWithPeas · 27/09/2023 21:53

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I don't think the ethnicity of either the victim or attacker have been reported yet in this case. My heart also goes out to the victim's friends. They will be utterly traumatised.

notahappybunny7 · 27/09/2023 21:53

I live in Manchester. A few majority of the knife crime is young black boys. That is a fact. Who mentioned London? Do you think the rest of the U.K. is “a white place?”

notahappybunny7 · 27/09/2023 21:55

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 21:51

@notahappybunny7

You're ignorant.

Is that the best you can come up with?

MotherOfRatios · 27/09/2023 21:57

notahappybunny7 · 27/09/2023 21:53

I live in Manchester. A few majority of the knife crime is young black boys. That is a fact. Who mentioned London? Do you think the rest of the U.K. is “a white place?”

its not a black issue....

Stressedafff · 27/09/2023 22:00

I find it absolutely petrifying how desensitised and cold these kids are to murder and violence

What the fuck is going on, is it the music they’re listening to? Is it lack of education? Poor mental health?

Something needs to fucking switch up FAST because this is dark world is rotting

Soapyspuds · 27/09/2023 22:06

The problem is not men as a whole.

The more accurate problem is that certain groups within our societies there are too many children growing up with absent fathers.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 22:09

Soapyspuds · 27/09/2023 22:06

The problem is not men as a whole.

The more accurate problem is that certain groups within our societies there are too many children growing up with absent fathers.

nah sorry that's bullshit - you think every violent man is the product of divorce?

Beatrix Campbell wrote the book Goliath in the 90's and made the point that the issue wasn't absent fathers but shit, toxic present fathers/men - that is still relevant today

Boys learn from men - they don't learn this from woman

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 27/09/2023 22:12

ButDaddyILoveHim · 27/09/2023 21:18

I've lived in Croydon for pretty much my whole life, and brought up my ds there too. I've defended the place over and over again on here as it's somewhere MN loves to slag off (and I'm sure that will only get worse now). It's not the loveliest of places anymore, sadly, but the vast majority of people live perfectly normal lives there without issue.

This isn't a 'Croydon problem'. It's not a 'Sadiq Khan problem', either (ffs). It is a violent, entitled male problem and violent, entitled males, as well we know, exist absolutely bloody everywhere.

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OK, Croydon and other places where knife crime is a major problem...

bombastix · 27/09/2023 22:13

Tbh I would make knife possession a minimum sentence for people under 18. Currently it doesn't work. There is a minimum snd it is always displaced by the offender's age when a judge comes to look at it. It is six months in prison. That is not enough.

Violence isn't taken seriously in our society. The penalties are too low.

I would take this off the sentencing council, get rid of those youth offender guidelines and make custody for knife carrying or any kind of violence with an offensive weapon subject to minimum sentence.

I hear all sorts of dribble about knives being carried for protection. That needs to stop.

bombastix · 27/09/2023 22:14

And the incident is awful. I am sorry I did not say it immediately but Croydon has big problems with youth crime. I hear stories like this often in South London though this is particularly horrible.

TheAverageJoanne · 27/09/2023 22:15

I was threatened with a knife by my older brother one night when we'd both been out (separately with our own friends) because he said it wasn't fair because I used too much electricity on straighteners.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 22:18

bombastix · 27/09/2023 22:13

Tbh I would make knife possession a minimum sentence for people under 18. Currently it doesn't work. There is a minimum snd it is always displaced by the offender's age when a judge comes to look at it. It is six months in prison. That is not enough.

Violence isn't taken seriously in our society. The penalties are too low.

I would take this off the sentencing council, get rid of those youth offender guidelines and make custody for knife carrying or any kind of violence with an offensive weapon subject to minimum sentence.

I hear all sorts of dribble about knives being carried for protection. That needs to stop.

well I'd rather address the reason why our children are carrying knives than just lock them up (talking about possession here NOT murder)

Violence against women and girls is not taken seriously - correct

Locking children up doesn;t change anything

Most young people I work with carry knives because they believe everyone else does and people their age are very stabby - to it makes a circle - again address the issues first

Soapyspuds · 27/09/2023 22:19

nah sorry that's bullshit - you think every violent man is the product of divorce? Beatrix Campbell wrote the book Goliath in the 90's and made the point that the issue wasn't absent fathers but shit, toxic present fathers/men - that is still relevant today Boys learn from men - they don't learn this from woman

You have spectaculary missed the point. Congratulations.

The one thing you did get right is that boys do learn this from men or at least males.

In the absence of a proper father figure to help teach them right from wrong and to give discipline where required, boys will naturally end up getting their guidance from other males. Unfortunately sometimes not the sort of males that are good father figures.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 22:19

TheAverageJoanne · 27/09/2023 22:15

I was threatened with a knife by my older brother one night when we'd both been out (separately with our own friends) because he said it wasn't fair because I used too much electricity on straighteners.

I'm sorry that happened to you

calyxx · 27/09/2023 22:22

The story now seems to be that the girl killed was protecting her friend from the boy. Even more victims. So horrible.

bombastix · 27/09/2023 22:23

@ghostyslovesheets - the two may go together but knife carriers are scum. The fact that some people will say it is for protection is imo rubbish. It is not penalised properly and should be. We did the same guns years ago. It made a big difference in terms of carrying and a drop in gun related violence.

The offender was carrying a machete. There is no reasonable excuse for carrying that.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 22:24

In the absence of a proper father figure to help teach them right from wrong and to give discipline where required, boys will naturally end up getting their guidance from other males. Unfortunately sometimes not the sort of males that are good father figures

What do you mean by 'father figure' and why do you feel they have more authority? Do you mean absent fathers? Do women leave men for no reason then? Should women stay with the biological fathers of their children because, even if it's shit, they have a father figure?

If men are the problem maybe we need to keep them the hell away from our boys?

Thanks for the congratulations though - do I get a prize?

PotOfViolas · 27/09/2023 22:24

A boy or man killing a girl or woman when she wants to split up really isn't limited to certain areas. There have been absolutely loads of examples of that in nice areas. Oxted, Calne, Wiltshire. Both involving teenagers. The headmistress of an exclusive private school was killed by her partner a year ago on the school grounds. This wasn't croydon gang violence. People like to think "Oh this couldn't happen in my town" but it could.