Page 16 | To be profoundly saddened by this story

Changeditforyou · 2023-09-27T12:28:15+00:00

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html]] They tell us to help our daughters to protect themselves from male violence by thinking about what they wear, how much they drink, how late to stay out, where they go… Are we supposed to add to the list ‘not rejecting a bunch of flowers in case you get stabbed to death’. This is horrifying. I’m so so sick of male violence. It feels everywhere and inescapable. More luck than anything that your daughter isn’t the one. This poor girl and her family.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 20:53

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 20:50

@MCOut again, not for this thread.

Agreed - happy to discuss elsewhere as you are right in it's original use but it's not used like that now - but yes not here.

PinkMoscatoLover · 27/09/2023 20:54

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 27/09/2023 20:52

How are parents of any teenager/young person (of any sex), living in Croydon, not absolutely terrified every time their child walks out the door? I can't believe how bad violent crime with weapons seems to be down there.

To me it’s just like living in any part of South London. You get used to it and unfortunately you can’t keep yourself or your children locked in doors. It’s awful but what can any of us do? I 100% don’t believe anything will change because how could it?

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 20:56

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 20:53

Neither was @ghostyslovesheets comment talking about "angry black women". Her answer that she gave wasn't even the correct answer to your Q. She wanted to make a jab towards black women to make a point.

You wanted to insert and include yourself in something that didn't concern you.

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Oh f no - I was absolutely NOT making a jab at a black woman - just contextualising the use of 'Karen' as an insult - please don;t come for me as a racist - or if you do - do it via another thread or PM - I don't want to derail this one

RicePuddingLady · 27/09/2023 20:57

Fuck this Karen chat. Take it elsewhere, all of you. A child has been murdered. Jesus.

SweetcornFritter · 27/09/2023 20:58

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 19:21

@SweetcornFritter well, imposing a curfew for all men as one posters suggested for a week would be an interesting start. Actually it was house arrest.

You say “interesting “, I say “absurd”.

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 21:01

@SweetcornFritter how to you suggest we mobilise for this then, because if this boy gets a slap in the wrist which is highly likely, then what?

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 21:02

Besides all that, my thoughts are solely with her parents at this point.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 21:03

I have reported my post and asked for it to be removed - it's derailing an important discussion

To the woman I responded to - I was not trying to attack you, I apologise if it appeared that way

MCOut · 27/09/2023 21:04

MotherOfRatios · 27/09/2023 20:36

As someone who is black, it is getting harder to use Mumsnet because of the amount of casual racism on the threads. It is not okay and I wish they would take a firm stance against it.

I say that because some of the comments on here about stop and search is absolutely ridiculous if any of you have read the Casey review It clearly states that black people are over-policed and underprotected, it also highlights the issue of stock and search and how it is disproportionately used... so yes police does have a problem with stop and search and black boys.

onto the post, it's very frustrating to see this painted as a knife/youth violence issue when it's a VAWG issue

100% these comments are kill me.

Stop and search has been used for years, they’ve been profiling people for most of that time and in no way has it helped. It has been shown to be incredibly ineffective. Most of the people harassed are completely innocent and all it does is cause mistrust in the police. If they have more power all we are going to see is more situations where 4ish officers turn up for paid £1.75 bus fare and autistic children.

They are consistently finding that police are not only failing to protect women but numerous officers have also been perpetrators of violence against women. The Alice Ruggles case mentioned earlier is another really sad case. Police having more power is not going to help women much less black women.

Badgerandfox227 · 27/09/2023 21:06

absolutely horrific to think about what she’s gone through and how her poor family must be feeling.

SofiYol · 27/09/2023 21:07

MCOut · 27/09/2023 21:04

100% these comments are kill me.

Stop and search has been used for years, they’ve been profiling people for most of that time and in no way has it helped. It has been shown to be incredibly ineffective. Most of the people harassed are completely innocent and all it does is cause mistrust in the police. If they have more power all we are going to see is more situations where 4ish officers turn up for paid £1.75 bus fare and autistic children.

They are consistently finding that police are not only failing to protect women but numerous officers have also been perpetrators of violence against women. The Alice Ruggles case mentioned earlier is another really sad case. Police having more power is not going to help women much less black women.

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As depressing as it is to admit, you are absolute right.

anunlikelyseahorse · 27/09/2023 21:08

LakeTiticaca · 27/09/2023 15:40

Take away the powers of the police, teachers and parents to mete out proper discipline, add in music stars/rappers, rapping about drugs, guns, take a pinch of tiktok, stir well with a big spoonful of weed and there you have it.

Summed up perfectly.

possomblossom · 27/09/2023 21:12

Margaret Atwood said: "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." For "laugh", you can also read reject. I think this is true at a gut level that many men just don't get at any level. There has to be some way of getting these men to sit with this and absorb it. I also think that men should read The Power by Naomi Alderman, to try to comprehend the sense of apprehension that many women feel and live with as a daily reality. And with the Met, and these senseless killings, the fear women feel is inexorable.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 21:14

anunlikelyseahorse · 27/09/2023 21:08

Summed up perfectly.

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reminds me of the outrage over video nasties

Rap is just bloody music - with added good decent role models

and by 'discipline' do you mean caning, smacking and criminalising?

Toxic masculinity is much more of a problem - as is criminal and sexual exploitation of our kids by organised gangs

MealsWithPeas · 27/09/2023 21:14

Stop and search has been used for years, they’ve been profiling people for most of that time and in no way has it helped. It has been shown to be incredibly ineffective. Most of the people harassed are completely innocent and all it does is cause mistrust in the police. If they have more power all we are going to see is more situations where 4ish officers turn up for paid £1.75 bus fare and autistic children.

Perfectly put.

Also please stop with the idiotic and facile Karen slur.

If you look at music videos and online porn, violence against women is being normalised, young men grow up with it. Start controlling that.

ButDaddyILoveHim · 27/09/2023 21:18

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 27/09/2023 20:52

How are parents of any teenager/young person (of any sex), living in Croydon, not absolutely terrified every time their child walks out the door? I can't believe how bad violent crime with weapons seems to be down there.

I've lived in Croydon for pretty much my whole life, and brought up my ds there too. I've defended the place over and over again on here as it's somewhere MN loves to slag off (and I'm sure that will only get worse now). It's not the loveliest of places anymore, sadly, but the vast majority of people live perfectly normal lives there without issue.

This isn't a 'Croydon problem'. It's not a 'Sadiq Khan problem', either (ffs). It is a violent, entitled male problem and violent, entitled males, as well we know, exist absolutely bloody everywhere.

MealsWithPeas · 27/09/2023 21:22

I associate the term Karen with the exact same misogyny that led to the killing of a precious young woman, which is is why it is especially out of place on this thread. Not that it belongs in any civil conversation.

ValancyRedfern · 27/09/2023 21:22

Well said. A teen girl was murdered for a similar reason in rural Wiltshire not too long ago. Women of every class and background and from every kind of place are murdered by current and ex partners.

Shitsandwiches · 27/09/2023 21:24

ButDaddyILoveHim · 27/09/2023 21:18

I've lived in Croydon for pretty much my whole life, and brought up my ds there too. I've defended the place over and over again on here as it's somewhere MN loves to slag off (and I'm sure that will only get worse now). It's not the loveliest of places anymore, sadly, but the vast majority of people live perfectly normal lives there without issue.

This isn't a 'Croydon problem'. It's not a 'Sadiq Khan problem', either (ffs). It is a violent, entitled male problem and violent, entitled males, as well we know, exist absolutely bloody everywhere.

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100%

TooOldForThisNonsense · 27/09/2023 21:25

Such awful, wicked, entitled male behaviour

that poor girl and her family

Original poster

Changeditforyou · 27/09/2023 21:26

I was just talking to my husband about all this. He’s very much a feminist but even he was a bit NAMALT until I launched into a rant about how unsafe women feel all the bloody time, self policing what we wear, drink, where we go, til when, how we treat men around us, at work, in the street, for some in the home too, we get murdered regularly and with casual impunity, by those close to us, occasionally strangers, or even the very police who are supposed to protect us but more commonly don’t believe us or give a shit, hence why we are also able to be sexually assaulted and raped with zero consequences. And hearing this happen to a young girl, and the flowers/machete choice that awaited her, has just made me feel distraught and furious. He very much apologised then.

OP posts:

Lampzade · 27/09/2023 21:27

mathanxiety · 27/09/2023 15:03

This isn't about Croydon.

It's about men mistaking women for property.

This

NotDonna · 27/09/2023 21:29

@Changeditforyou of course he doesn’t get it. He’s a man. It doesn’t matter how many times it’s spelled out to them, they don’t get it. Nit really. On the surface maybe but not really.

notahappybunny7 · 27/09/2023 21:36

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ButDaddyILoveHim · 27/09/2023 21:39

Changeditforyou · 27/09/2023 21:26

I was just talking to my husband about all this. He’s very much a feminist but even he was a bit NAMALT until I launched into a rant about how unsafe women feel all the bloody time, self policing what we wear, drink, where we go, til when, how we treat men around us, at work, in the street, for some in the home too, we get murdered regularly and with casual impunity, by those close to us, occasionally strangers, or even the very police who are supposed to protect us but more commonly don’t believe us or give a shit, hence why we are also able to be sexually assaulted and raped with zero consequences. And hearing this happen to a young girl, and the flowers/machete choice that awaited her, has just made me feel distraught and furious. He very much apologised then.

I once explained it to dh like this - women are only as safe as the men around them allow them to be. And then I watched the penny start to drop.