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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be profoundly saddened by this story

615 replies

Changeditforyou · 27/09/2023 13:28

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html

They tell us to help our daughters to protect themselves from male violence by thinking about what they wear, how much they drink, how late to stay out, where they go…
Are we supposed to add to the list ‘not rejecting a bunch of flowers in case you get stabbed to death’. This is horrifying.

I’m so so sick of male violence. It feels everywhere and inescapable. More luck than anything that your daughter isn’t the one. This poor girl and her family.

Teenage boy stabbed girl, 15, to death with 'a machete after argument'

Met Police officers rushed to Wellesley Road outside the Whitgift shopping centre. Paramedics battled to save the 15-year-old's life but she was pronounced dead at the scene.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12565699/Police-rush-scene-incident-outside-busy-Croydon-shopping-centre.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ButDaddyILoveHim · 27/09/2023 20:25

jm9138 · 27/09/2023 20:14

I think my posting that I think it is wrong for people to post threats towards my male children tells you all you need to know about me. Maybe the posts saying ‘I wish all men could be vaporised’ and similar have been deleted. Even if those threats are really very silly I think I am allowed to respond to people who think ill of three of my children because of their chromosomes.

As for the curfew argument. Let’s follow it through (as completely silly as the suggestion is).

Who would enforce it? Are you going to arm women so they can shoot men they see on the street when they should be inside?

The people who would most happily comply would be very placid men except if you could genuinely lock them in. So now you are going to leave some violent men locked in with who? Their partners? Their children? Or are you going to lock them up with the non-violent men and see what happens.

I agree this is all off topic of the original post and I will happily take my leave from this thread and probably mumsnet. I only joined a few days ago because I liked reading the ‘am I being unreasonable’ threads.

The poster asks ‘is she being unreasonable to be profoundly sad’ about the story. No. Is it unreasonable for the answer to this to be suggest imposing punishment on every male because of this story (as has been suggested)? Yes. Because it is unjust, unethical, and would likely cause more violence not less.

Answers to reducing the numbers of violent men? I don’t know. I am not violent myself and I raise my children (including my daughter) not to be. What can I do if others do not do the same?

No one has posted threats against your male children. Grow the fuck up and stop trying to make this thread about you and your hurty feelz.

Men are the problem. I know you don't want to hear it, but they are. Stop whining 'ohhh but I'm a Nice Guy, stop being mean, what does this have to do with meeee?' and start trying to understand why women might be so angry, scared, exhausted and just plain fucking sick of dealing with male privilege and entitlement ALL DAY LONG that they start suggesting radical solutions.

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post.

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 20:27

@Fuckthatguy

The two words are separate.

I'm black and so I called @MCOut 'sis'. She'll understand.

If you don't, that's perfectly fine.

Presseddaisy · 27/09/2023 20:29

So sad. I don't think this is about youth violence or a homicide by a stranger. It sounds like they were in a relationship and it was domestic abuse, sadly ending in homicide when she refused to get back with him. Leaving is a known risk factor and domestic violencerates are high in young people. Sadly domestic violence where the victim is female has a higher prevalence as does domestic violence ending in homicide. My thoughts are with the victims family.

ghostyslovesheets · 27/09/2023 20:30

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

MCOut · 27/09/2023 20:31

@Quirkyme No I completely understand you, it’s so draining reading it all the time so it’s natural to be on guard.

This story had me in tears as soon as I read it tbh. Her poor poor family. I can just imagine how hard they’ve worked to give their daughter a good start in life for this to happen.

PinkMoscatoLover · 27/09/2023 20:35

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 20:05

@PinkMoscatoLover

Right? @MadamWhiteleigh 's comment was disgusting tbh.

Very awful. The assumption that she must have been white because she goes to a private school is a ridiculous thing to say.

I personally thought the media mentioned it in a, ‘regardless of whether a child goes to a public or private school, this can still happen to them’ sort of way. Not, ‘this happened to a white girl who was in private school so we’ll publish the story.’ What a ridiculous comment

MotherOfRatios · 27/09/2023 20:36

As someone who is black, it is getting harder to use Mumsnet because of the amount of casual racism on the threads. It is not okay and I wish they would take a firm stance against it.

I say that because some of the comments on here about stop and search is absolutely ridiculous if any of you have read the Casey review It clearly states that black people are over-policed and underprotected, it also highlights the issue of stock and search and how it is disproportionately used... so yes police does have a problem with stop and search and black boys.

onto the post, it's very frustrating to see this painted as a knife/youth violence issue when it's a VAWG issue

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 20:37

MotherOfRatios · 27/09/2023 20:36

As someone who is black, it is getting harder to use Mumsnet because of the amount of casual racism on the threads. It is not okay and I wish they would take a firm stance against it.

I say that because some of the comments on here about stop and search is absolutely ridiculous if any of you have read the Casey review It clearly states that black people are over-policed and underprotected, it also highlights the issue of stock and search and how it is disproportionately used... so yes police does have a problem with stop and search and black boys.

onto the post, it's very frustrating to see this painted as a knife/youth violence issue when it's a VAWG issue

100%. This is actually why I stopped commenting on threads generally tbh.

DyslexicPoster · 27/09/2023 20:37

I think we need to teach our daughters too. I was thinking today it's not just what I tell my sons, it's what I tell my daughter too. That's she second to no one, was born to serve no one. She doesn't have to marry and have kids. It's all her choice if she wants to take on a equal. The classic Disney story is BS. I'm always told my dd is fiesty. Not great in a 8 year old but vital in a teen girl.

MotherOfRatios · 27/09/2023 20:40

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 20:37

100%. This is actually why I stopped commenting on threads generally tbh.

Show quote history

I'm fed up of it, it's really not fair

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 20:40

@ghostyslovesheets yes, thank you, was surprised to read Karen so wondered what the context was - but not for this thread.

Sis, is of course familiar.

Lighthouseview · 27/09/2023 20:40

neveradullmoment99 · 27/09/2023 16:53

My son is gentle, kind, empathetic and considerate at 15.

That may or may not be true, but is entirely irrelevant to this discussion, which is about systemic violence from men as a class. It is not about individual men or your son. Stop derailing and have some respect for what has happened and the posters on here who wish to discuss it.

DyslexicPoster · 27/09/2023 20:40

You can't imagine the parents pain. The first responders said some lovely words but how do you put into words sending your kid off to school in a 'safe' country and never seeing them again as they was brutally, horrifically murdered. And someone set off fully lucid making that his days plan. You can't verbalise it.

Pocketfullofdogtreats · 27/09/2023 20:40

Re what was in that boy's mind - I saw an interview with a young man in the US. He had stabbed another young man who had 'taken' his GF, and he'd felt disrespected and that he needed to teach this guy a lesson. Yet here he was, in prison. He had ruined his own life, for what? He reflected that he'd been young, and now realised the culture of punishment for disrespect was at fault. I imagine the boy in Croydon felt something similar (that meant he wanted to punish the girl instead of accepting her decision). But he'll have plenty of leisure time to reflect on how that action has ruined his life as well as taken hers.

Princessbananahamock · 27/09/2023 20:43

It doesn’t matter what fucking colour they are. It’s irrelevant End period.
It (he) took a life, he should be named don’t care his age, he knew what he was doing took flowers and a weapon ! What the actual fuck . Some people are just evil it doesn’t matter about upbringing where you live etc … you know right from wrong. You know you can’t force people to want to be with you.
Another poster said it was her friend protecting her, omg what a brave and heroic act , I hope her sacrifice is not in vain and more is done and set in stone legally to protect our young girls from this.

what a horrible thing to have happened.

I have a 15 yr old daughter I’m thankful she is in her room doing homework. I cannot fathom how that family must feel. My heart goes out to them. Such unimaginable pain xxx this is just so awful

Siameasy · 27/09/2023 20:44

This could sadly have happened anywhere - a few years ago there was a similar case in Chatham. The ethnicity of those involved isn’t relevant either as “domestic” murder cuts across all social classes and ethnic groups. I don’t see what the police could’ve done since they aren’t party to people’s private lives. Poor family to have lost their precious daughter.

RicePuddingLady · 27/09/2023 20:45

Shame on the people hijacking this thread to squabble and vent.

A child has been murdered. A family sent their daughter to school this morning and she isn’t coming home. Have some respect.

mathanxiety · 27/09/2023 20:45

But he'll have plenty of leisure time to reflect on how that action has ruined his life as well as taken hers.

I doubt the time he will serve will be in any way proportionate to the crime, and I also suspect the prison environment will do nothing to put a dent in the value he places in the culture of punishment for disrespect.

MCOut · 27/09/2023 20:49

@ghostyslovesheets @Fuckthatguy

@Quirkyme is right. In context between two black people the co-opted definition of that word is not relevant. In this context I don’t feel that it is anymore misogynistic than calling someone a handmaiden.

Rather imo Karen like behaviour is often sexist as well as racist. It is always the universally fought against fragile, delicate & incapable version of white womanhood which that’s weaponised against poc. I don’t see a problem in calling this behaviour out.

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 20:50

@MCOut again, not for this thread.

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 27/09/2023 20:52

How are parents of any teenager/young person (of any sex), living in Croydon, not absolutely terrified every time their child walks out the door? I can't believe how bad violent crime with weapons seems to be down there.

Quirkyme · 27/09/2023 20:53

Fuckthatguy · 27/09/2023 20:50

@MCOut again, not for this thread.

Neither was @ghostyslovesheets comment talking about "angry black women". Her answer that she gave wasn't even the correct answer to your Q. She wanted to make a jab towards black women to make a point.

You wanted to insert and include yourself in something that didn't concern you.

Threeplusmore · 27/09/2023 20:53

No, sorry, that does not stand up. Everyone has to buy products pertinent to their intimate needs, whatever their sex or circumstances. If you were a man you could claim special pleading that you have to use razor blades, shavers, shaver foam, because of your sex, you grow facial hair. Stick it in your pocket! Don't pay. Equally, because you have a penis, you should not have to pay for condoms. With a distorted moral righteousness you put those in your pocket too, congratulating yourself that you are playing your part in not speading STD, HIV and unwanted pregnancies. What would you think of the youth with a hoody who threatened your corner shop owner and told him to empty his till? Disgraceful! But that is exactly what you are doing. You are robbing him of his stock, his profit and everything else to do with his direct profitability Logistics and the opportunity cost of him putting something else in that space. The consequence of this path of distorted logic is that, for the product to be stocked, it adds a cost for everyone. What also happens for stock which builds up a theft profile is that they take it off the shelves. Therefore, you have to go to a separate counter and ask for it, or there is an extra locking device on it. Great! That's what we all want for our sanitary products! So, explain to me again, in what way is your shoplifting a special tribute to the tragic case of what that monster did to Sarah Everard?