Page 17 | To intensely dislike Keir Starmer

LemonyTicket · 2023-09-26T23:42:33+00:00

I can't stand Tories. The current Tories are the worst But I still intensely dislike Keir Starmer and will probably vote Green. I find him phony, with no vision, like a terrible 6th form prefect. And to be honest his whole front bench are dreadful. Wes Streeting nauseates me. Is it just me?

EasternStandard · 27/09/2023 12:55

LemonyTicket · 27/09/2023 12:53

Im not being literal. What I'm saying is, he is using (by being fairly disingenuous because his upbringing was nice and relatively privileged) the rehearsed lines about his Dad being a toolmaker in order to appear working class when he definitely wasn't. And even if he was, it's manipulative.

I'm quite old and couldn't tell you the professions of the parents of any past prime minister! He bangs on about it to manipulate people. Truth is, he's a pretty swanky guy who likely mixes in very upper class circles and he's probably never in his life gone hungry or cold or dealt with our everyday problems like not being able to afford childcare.

I'd respect him if he was authentic and said "I came from a nice home and have been really fortunate"

I agree with you on the ‘toolmaker’ schtick

Clavinova · 27/09/2023 12:55

CurlewKate
Because the selective state school he attended became private while he was there

When he was about 14.

Surrey County Council only covered fees for the pupils up to age 16 - Starmer's parents must have applied for a scholarship/bursary/part bursary on his behalf to attend the fully private sixth form.

"My Dad was a toolmaker"

Or was he a self-employed precision engineer?

CallieQ · 27/09/2023 12:55

Why does everyone on her always bring it down to gender? There are way more important things going on IMO

cardibach · 27/09/2023 12:57

LadyBird1973 · 27/09/2023 10:40

@Andnowtowhatcomesnext the 20mph limit is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It's fine to have it near schools and on housing estates but it's not appropriate as a default - it's cost a lot of money making it default, money that could have been better spent elsewhere. When it doesn't work, more money will be wasted, putting it back to 30.
My experience of NHS Wales has been mixed - still waiting after 2 years to see a Urologist, DS was waiting a couple of years to see a consultant, there's a year + wait for a menopause specialist, no nhs dentist. The Welsh government is in charge of its own spending and cannot blame Westminster for all its failures.

I’m not convinced you really understand what making 20 the default means. It just means you don’t have to go through a lengthy process to get a 20mph limit. It doesn’t mean all - or any - roads in built up areas have to be 20. As an example, I drove all the way from the bridge, through the centre of Swansea and to The Mumbles the week this came in. I first encountered there’d a 20mph zone well along Mumbles Road. And it didn’t last for long.

BIossomtoes · 27/09/2023 12:57

LemonyTicket · 27/09/2023 12:53

Im not being literal. What I'm saying is, he is using (by being fairly disingenuous because his upbringing was nice and relatively privileged) the rehearsed lines about his Dad being a toolmaker in order to appear working class when he definitely wasn't. And even if he was, it's manipulative.

I'm quite old and couldn't tell you the professions of the parents of any past prime minister! He bangs on about it to manipulate people. Truth is, he's a pretty swanky guy who likely mixes in very upper class circles and he's probably never in his life gone hungry or cold or dealt with our everyday problems like not being able to afford childcare.

I'd respect him if he was authentic and said "I came from a nice home and have been really fortunate"

You’re being completely disingenuous. Labour PMs for the entirety of my lifetime have been Oxbridge educated. Blair was a public school boy and a barrister. Now I don’t know about you but I actually want the person running the country to be well educated. How about you address some policies?

Seaitoverthere · 27/09/2023 12:59

CurlewKate · 27/09/2023 12:39

The Labour Party can't win, can they. If they are people of principle who come from privileged backgrounds but support left wing policies they are hypocrites. If they are people from disadvantaged backgrounds who "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" they are also hypocrites. And sell outs.

No they can’t. The press bigged up Johnson who had been sacked previously for lying but went on about Ed Milliband and Bacon sandwiches .

You are taking a hell of a gamble with your approach @LemonyTicket .

randomrandom · 27/09/2023 12:59

CallieQ · 27/09/2023 12:55

Why does everyone on her always bring it down to gender? There are way more important things going on IMO

That IMO is important, other people may think differently and see gender as a priority.

madamreign · 27/09/2023 12:59

CallieQ · 27/09/2023 12:55

Why does everyone on her always bring it down to gender? There are way more important things going on IMO

It's weird and depressing.

BloodyHellKen · 27/09/2023 13:00

CurlewKate · 27/09/2023 12:39

The Labour Party can't win, can they. If they are people of principle who come from privileged backgrounds but support left wing policies they are hypocrites. If they are people from disadvantaged backgrounds who "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" they are also hypocrites. And sell outs.

I think most people are more pragmatic and don't really care where a politician 'comes' from as long as they make sense, act like a decent adult human being and have policies that are popular/appeal.

It always seem to be people on the left who don't like where someone is from - either they are too middleclass/born with a silver spoon so couldn't understand etc etc or they are a class traitor...or a race traitor which is another one I've come across. I think this is something left wing parties get spectacularly wrong, time and time again.

I'm happy to be corrected if people on the right say they won't vote for someone because of their background.

Obviously right wing newspapers like the DM use it as a stick to beat with (although imo they are just reinforcing their readers views and not actually turning anyone away from voting for Labour).

IdleAnimations · 27/09/2023 13:02

CallieQ · 27/09/2023 12:55

Why does everyone on her always bring it down to gender? There are way more important things going on IMO

Because for some less privileged women, the biological reality of their sex is something that does matter when it comes to relevant government policy.

E.g up until 1992 it was perfectly legal for a husband to rape his wife. Outlawing that means women can come forward and press charges against husbands who rape them.

BIossomtoes · 27/09/2023 13:02

madamreign · 27/09/2023 12:59

It's weird and depressing.

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It certainly is. Fortunately it’s confined to a very tiny section of the population. Most people care more about just about everything.

Original poster

LemonyTicket · 27/09/2023 13:03

@blossomtoes I don't t recall Blair going on about his underprivileged background.

OP posts:

EasternStandard · 27/09/2023 13:03

madamreign · 27/09/2023 12:59

It's weird and depressing.

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Depends. Are you ok with males in single sex spaces and sports?

I don’t see anything weird or depressing about females getting a fair chance in say their chosen sport.

I do find a lot of gender indoctrination weird and depressing though

BIossomtoes · 27/09/2023 13:04

LemonyTicket · 27/09/2023 13:03

@blossomtoes I don't t recall Blair going on about his underprivileged background.

I don’t recall Starmer doing it either. I’ve never heard him describe himself as underprivileged.

luckylavender · 27/09/2023 13:05

Jurisprudense · 27/09/2023 02:10

He's a highly educated man who doesn't understand that the word 'pledge' actually has a meaning that leads to expectations.
He forgot he owned a 7 acre field in Surrey.
He has less charisma than the Ed Stone.

Other than that, entirely electable.

A field that he bought for his disabled mother's donkeys?! The right wing media are doing a fine job on you.

BIossomtoes · 27/09/2023 13:05

BIossomtoes · 27/09/2023 13:04

I don’t recall Starmer doing it either. I’ve never heard him describe himself as underprivileged.

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On the other hand, Truss never stopped wanging on about the sink comprehensive she attended - which ironically got her into Oxford.

HotApplePiePunch · 27/09/2023 13:07

cardibach · 27/09/2023 12:47

No it isn’t. I live there.
many if the issues with health in Wales are caused by demographics - an older population and a history of heavy industry so the older people have worse health than in many areas of England. Funding is also dependent on what Westminster will allow (and we’ve been robbed millions of consequentials from HS2 which has been classified and England and Wales project despite none of it coming anywhere near). Despite that we have free prescriptions and when I had a knee issue I’d seen a GP, had a hospital x ray and been treated within a month.

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I live in Wales and I agree funding is a national issue and welsh demographics are a huge problem.

However after 20 + years of Welsh labour being the main party in power I think Wales is governed poorly.

Not convivence Welsh Tory or plaid cymru would be better - but I am sick of being told the party in charge of education and health for past 2 decades is apparently not responsible for the huge issues those areas actually have.

I think 14 year of central Tory government has been pretty bad to disastrous and 20 + years of Welsh Labour governance in Wales hasn't been great either.

Maybe as we creep towards general election we'll hear more polices and big ideas some of us can get behind or at least respect.

cardibach · 27/09/2023 13:07

Clavinova · 27/09/2023 12:43

He had a very ordinary upbringing

Not really - his sixth form education was fully in the private sector and his favourite music is Beethoven.

In his early years [the Labour leader] played the flute, piano, recorder and violin, and was once a young scholar at the Guildhall School of Music in London.

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

Are you really saying an ‘ordinary’ person can’t like classical music?
the school became independent. He couldn’t really control that, and didn’t pay fees as an existing pupil from when it was a state grammar.

IspendallmymoneyonEtsy · 27/09/2023 13:11

I think he’s a bit ‘grey’ and uninspiring but I think he’s just someone from an ordinary (rather than deprived) background that has done well for himself. Clearly fairly academic and good at climbing the slippery corporate pole.

Reigate Grammar was a state school when he got in, became independent during his time there. I’d imagine that there was probably an agreement where existing pupils stayed on without having to pay fees until they finished their education.

YABU, seems like a massive personal bugbear.

cardibach · 27/09/2023 13:12

I'm quite old and couldn't tell you the professions of the parents of any past prime minister!
Really, @LemonyTicket ?
You don’t remember the grocer’s daughter Margaret Thatcher?

cardibach · 27/09/2023 13:15

@HotApplePiePunch im a teacher and have worked in both Wales and England. I can assure you that England is far worse in many, many ways.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2023 13:15

... it's more that I feel he doesn't mean a word out of his mouth

He's a politician; kinda goes with the territory wouldn't you say?

And yes, here's another thoroughly centrist swing voter who's politically homeless

helford · 27/09/2023 13:15

madamreign · 27/09/2023 12:59

It's weird and depressing.

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Yes there is, some posters bang on about it at every opportunity on any political thread, its all they ve got to try and defend Tory failures to protect womens rights.
ALL the instances of men taking part in female sport have occurred under the Tories.

Fortunately, polling shows that the general public are not fooled by this nonsense, it really is a minority issue by those who are well off.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country?crossBreak=female

The most important issues facing the country

Which of the following do you think are the most important issues facing the country at this time? Please tick up to three.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country?crossBreak=female

brujarosada · 27/09/2023 13:16

Voting Green is basically voting Tory. This would be stupid if you actually want change.

IspendallmymoneyonEtsy · 27/09/2023 13:16

cardibach · 27/09/2023 13:07

Are you really saying an ‘ordinary’ person can’t like classical music?
the school became independent. He couldn’t really control that, and didn’t pay fees as an existing pupil from when it was a state grammar.

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Completely agree, my DC is headed to Oxbridge, has a music diploma and is really committed both as a musician and a student.

I’m a single parent who went to uni as a 30 year old, my dad worked in a factory. I had a musical education at my crap comprehensive school back in the 80s because it was free.