To intensely dislike Keir Starmer

[LemonyTicket]

I can't stand Tories.
The current Tories are the worst

But I still intensely dislike Keir Starmer and will probably vote Green.

I find him phony, with no vision, like a terrible 6th form prefect. And to be honest his whole front bench are dreadful. Wes Streeting nauseates me.

Is it just me?

Ok @LemonyTicket those are your feelings and that’s fair enough, I don’t disagree with you mostly.

How do you propose that we move forward as a country from the situation we are in given who are leaders of each party and our current electoral system?

None of that is Labour policy. Not a single one of those bullet points. Added to which self ID was a Tory policy first endorsed by Theresa May.

A local independent candidate. I thought a local candidate/independent candidate were interchangeable terms that meant the same thing 😁

Sorry to interject but I think we look at our European neighbours who have started voting for independents/fringe parties. MSM are saying these are far right parties but I take that stance with a pinch of salt as everything seems to be far right these days.

Voting for the same two leaves us with the same people who tend to all have the same background, education etc irrespective of their rosette colour. Pigs in the trough.

I like him. Ultimately we have to think of the bigger picture here. Do we want 5 more years of Tory rule? If your answer is yes then go ahead vote Tory or whichever party in your local will split the vote and allow the Tory party to win overall. If your answer is no more Tories then vote for the party who is most likely to win in your area and beat the Tories. If you're in a Tory stronghold where you are, like I am, then do your homework and look back to previous elections to see who has come closest to toppling your Tory and put your weight behind them.

Don’t like facts much, do you? He had a very ordinary upbringing, his first degree is from Leeds and his postgraduate legal qualification is from Oxford.

@Seaitoverthere

How do you propose that we move forward as a country from the situation we are in given who are leaders of each party and our current electoral system?

As citizens? We have to get rid of Tory vs lite Tory as the only options. The only way we can do that is at the ballot box.

Vote for neither.

That's really the only way democracy works. Otherwise we will just be America.

I don't dislike him but I'm still waiting for him to win me over.

I'm a center left floating voter and I don't know who the fuck I'm going to vote for - they all look poor options.

Labour supporters on here don't help - they've taken to dismissing Welsh issues but I live here and they affect me directly.

The best I've heard well they couldn't be worse than the Tories - which has some merit given RAAC debacle but then I hear some statements often around but not exclusively women issues from shadow cabinet members and think fuck are any of them capable of critical thinking at all.

TBF to Keir Starmer, he came from a pretty average background. He worked hard at the local grammar school and got into Oxford as a result. He is wealthy and powerful now, but through his own hard work and I have huge respect for that.

I wouldn't vote for him/the party he represents for all sorts of reasons I've listed above, but credit where credit's due.

Edit: I stand corrected by @BIossomtoes his first degree is actually from Leeds and his postgraduate legal qualification is from Oxford.

Didn’t say it was just Labour but the gender recognition act was Labour. There are a team of Tories also actively trying to erase women such as Crispin Blunt.

I didn’t say this was a ‘policy’, I said the erosion can lead to the erosion of our hard earned rights. Because without definitions - our laws become murky and hard to administer. This is why the equality act is going through and overhaul to define sex as biological, not an identity marker as it’s led to situations such men in women’s prisons which has meant women have been raped.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

the gender recognition act was Labour.

UK Government 2018 consultation on reform of the GRAIn July 2018, the UK Government published a consultation on reform of the GRA in England and Wales. The consultation closed on 22 October 2018. It focused on the process for achieving legal recognition of someone’s gender. One option on which views were sought was the removal of the requirement for a medical diagnosis.

In the consultation paper, the Government said it wanted to make it easier for transgender people to achieve legal recognition. It said many transgender people feel the current process is: “overly intrusive, humiliating and administratively burdensome,” and they argue “by requiring a diagnostic psychiatric report, the process perpetuates the outdated and false assumption that being trans is a mental illness.”

The Government also said concerns had been raised about the potential implications of reform on the exceptions in the Equality Act 2010 associated with gender reassignment discrimination. The Government confirmed, where it is a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim, it would still be possible to exclude transgender people from single-sex services.

Now, as far as I’m aware, the government in 2018 was Tory.

There are a team of Tories also actively trying to erase women such as Crispin Blunt

Crispin Blunt is standing down at the next election.

Females won’t cease to exist this is total hyperbole!

I agree with you OP I can’t quite take to him either. I will probably vote Green.

Yes the GRA is where men could first legally change sex, under Labour.

I agree the Equality Act is the way to go. Labour have said they will stop the change though if it’s still in process at GE, which given timing may be likely

"Do you want 5 more years of Tory rule?"

These questions are exactly the mentality that allows it to continue. Labour are only able to have poor policies because people accept it.

As soon as you stop voting for the lesser of two evils, they will have to change.

To answer the question: I'd prefer 5 more years of Tory IF it means at the end of 5 years we get real, desperately needed change. I'd far prefer that to 5 years of Tory lite before the Tories get nick I'm again for another 15 years!

Yes the GRA is where men could first legally change sex, under Labour.

It wasn't. I’ve just posted the evidence. Inconvenience things, these facts.

The Labour Party can't win, can they. If they are people of principle who come from privileged backgrounds but support left wing policies they are hypocrites. If they are people from disadvantaged backgrounds who "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" they are also hypocrites. And sell outs.

Of course it was

The Gender Recognition Act 2004

The GRA outlines a process and set of evidential requirements that, once satisfied, allow trans people over the age of 18 to get legal recognition of their gender identity.

The Gender Recognition Act(GRA) enables trans people to change their legal gender by acquiring a gender recognition certificate, and to change their birth certificate.

Again, this wasn’t a Tory vs Labour thing for me. This is keeping women as a protected characteristic.

What you’ve quoted there is the reform which some Tories and especially Labour wish to bring forward. The original act was 2004 during Tony Blair. The reform proposes removal of a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria thus allowing Self ID essentially.

The austerity measures brought in by the Tories have disproportionately affected women. Women are poorer, taking on more unpaid care, and so on as a directly result of Conservative policies.

It’s either a) a luxury or b) cutting off your nose to spite your face, to base your vote solely on the trans issue.

And for what it’s worth I 100% agree with you - women can’t have penises. But you have to take a broad view. Politics - and in particular what politicians say - is not black and white.

The original act was 2004 during Tony Blair.

Exactly. Where do people get this stuff from

YABU to even consider voting for those idiots in the Green Party.

Keir Starmer and Labour are utterly useless too.

He had a very ordinary upbringing

Not really - his sixth form education was fully in the private sector and his favourite music is Beethoven.

In his early years [the Labour leader] played the flute, piano, recorder and violin, and was once a young scholar at the Guildhall School of Music in London.

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

I'm going yo vote for Labour but only to get thr Tories out. Time for change and all that jazz.

I don't find him particularly inspiring but I don't find many politicians are. They are all a bit brace and bollocks.

And yet you get it so wrong. 🫣